Mereja.Forum

[Horus]

ኢምር ኢምር! (ኮከብ ኮከብ)! እንዞሪቴ (ኢዮ እንዞሪቴ ገና ነበቦ!) ሆያ ሆዬ! አንቃት (ገና ጨዋታ) !!

[Horus]

[Horus]

[Dama]

When did Aalmale become Kistane? Also, when did Kistane become one of the houses of Gurage.

According the map attached from the 1600s by the Jesuit missionary Manuel de Almeida, Almale was not part of the historical Gurage. Betezamora, now Mesqan, also did constitute a part of historical Gurage.

Innrecent year, Mesqan and Kistane voted to exit the Gurage union as did Silte previously. They formed their own zone called Mesqan & Kistane Zone. They are not Gurage.

All three, Mesqan, Kistane and Silte have never been historically Gurage. All had different names and were located outside of the historical Gurage. And they are not now by their volition. Stop referring to yourselves as Gurage. Reduce and stop the confusion. You are Kistane. You are not Gurage. I am.

See map below.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Pf5NVyK5xVrSwFE29

[Horus]

When did Aalmale become Kistane? Also, when did Kistane become one of the houses of Gurage.
According the map attached in 1600s, Almale was not part of the historical Gurage. And now, Mesqan and Kistane it voted to exist the Gurage Zone as Silte did. They formed theirbown zone called Mesqan & Kistane Zone. All three were not historically part of Gurage. And they are nor now.
See map below.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Pf5NVyK5xVrSwFE29

አይመለል ጉራጌ የተወለደበት ቦታ ነው! ለምን ራስክን ወደ ግብጽነት አትለውጥም! መሳደብ ግን አቁም! ባህል ካለህ እስቲ ለጥፈው? አሁን የክስታኔ ሰርግ እለጥፍልሃለሁ! ክብርህን ጠብቅ!

[Dama]

Christian extremism against me who is an atheist won't help you. Don't run for easy escape. You were not Gurage historically and you are not now.

Simply said, never in history Alamale or Kistane now, was known as Gurage. Never. Ever. I have provided proof despite. Take away your hearsay.
Recently Kistan and Mesqan dissolved the union with the historical Gurage and exited to form their own separate polity of Kistane and Mesqan Zone. You are no more Gurage. You only have been with Gurage for less 30 years.
Stop referring to yourself Gurage. You are Kistane.

[Horus]

Christian extremism against me who is an atheist won't help you. Don't run for easy escape. You were not Gurage historically and you are not now.

Simply said, never in history Alamale or Kistane now, was known as Gurage. Never. Ever. I have provided proof despite. Take away your hearsay.
Recently Kistan and Mesqan dissolved the union with the historical Gurage and exited to form their own separate polity of Kistane and Mesqan Zone. You are no more Gurage. You only have been with Gurage for less 30 years.
Stop referring to yourself Gurage. You are Kistane.

ቱስ ቱስ ድብቅ ወያኔ! Nice try

[Horus]

ንሴብሆ ለእግዚአብሄር!!! ታላቁ ምድረ ከብድ !!

[Odie]

When did Aalmale become Kistane? Also, when did Kistane become one of the houses of Gurage.

According the map attached from the 1600s by the Jesuit missionary Manuel de Almeida, Almale was not part of the historical Gurage. Betezamora, now Mesqan, also did constitute a part of historical Gurage.

Innrecent year, Mesqan and Kistane voted to exit the Gurage union as did Silte previously. They formed their own zone called Mesqan & Kistane Zone. They are not Gurage.

All three, Mesqan, Kistane and Silte have never been historically Gurage. All had different names and were located outside of the historical Gurage. And they are not now by their volition. Stop referring to yourselves as Gurage. Reduce and stop the confusion. You are Kistane. You are not Gurage. I am.

See map below.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Pf5NVyK5xVrSwFE29

Actually, me unti high school and later college, I thought Gurage was mostly 7-bet. I never thought silte was even gurage. In addition, kistane mostly referred in 7-bet as Sodo, I never thought they were Gurage up until I met a friend in college. I was surprised, by then me as 7-bet language speaker could understand people from 7-but never able to understand silte, barely understand Sodo-gurage. Then my friend let me know they are kistane than Sodo-gurage. In any case I could not understand what he spoke. What he spoke looked close to Amharic. He was a fanatic Orthodox. With the help of horus there seems good correlation between the two dialects and could be learned. Then I heard about a lot other North-eastern group including Meskan etc. I even heard Sodo-gordena vs Sodo-Jida (one of them during TPLF era said they are Oromo). አፕረቲቭ ሆነ ማለት ነው! That is why a challenge to unify gurage. Some filthy rich people like owner of Sunshine are supporters of PP due to their investment …on and on.
Bye the way this is not exceptional to gurage, the belly worship culture is pervasive in all ethnics in Ethiopia

[Horus]

Odie,
I don't claim to know about the full history of all the Gurage sub-groups but I have all the love and highest respect for every Gurage clan or sub-group, some even more than my own. You and I have shared a few linguistic facts and I was just as surprised to find so much unity and similarity in our languages and customs. This means one thing: our ignorance of the history and culture of the various Gurage communities does not amount to be a fact. Ignorance is not a fact. Dama does not know the Kistane Gurage. Dama's ignorance is not an evidence for Kistane not being a Gurage. This is what I call the ignorance cycle. If I call what I don't a fact, then my ignorance becomes the evidence for my ignorance. That is Dama! And, the reality is this: my ignorance does not and will not invalidate a fact. As for your opinion of Samuel Tafese, that is your right. He does not need your or my approval to be what he want to be. He is the textbook Gurage self-made exemplar! I just want to say this: you can believe in anything you want to believe! I am forever the proudest human being to have been born into a people, a culture, an ethos called THE GURAGE!

[Dama]

Odie,
I don't claim to know about the full history of all the Gurage sub-groups but I have all the love and highest respect for every Gurage clan or sub-group, some even more than my own. You and I shared a few linguistic facts and I was just as surprised to find so much unity and similarity in our languages and customs. This means one thing: our ignorance of the history and culture of the various Gurage communities does not amount to be a fact. Ignorance is not a fact. Dama does not know the Kistane Gurage. Dama's ignorance is not an evidence for Kistane not being a Gurage. This is what I call the ignorance cycle. If I call what I don't a fact, then my ignorance becomes the evidence for my ignorance. That is Dama! And, the reality is this: my ignorance does not and will not invalidate a fact. As for your opinion of Samuel Tafese, that is your right. He does not need your or mine approval to be what he want to be. He is the textbook Gurage self-made exemplar! I just want to say this: you can believe in anything you want to believe! I am forever the proudest human being to have been born into a people, a culture, an ethos called THE GURAGE!

Gurage doesn't cultivate, grow and nurtue Christian extremists like you. Both Christian and Muslim Gurages fought back enem8es of all kinds togetger. Christian extremists like you have and had nomplace in Gurage history. We turf them out when we find them.
Gurage is and has been proud of its name Gurage and maintained it for centurulies after centuries. Under fire, under suffering or under bliss, Gurage remained Gurage. History is the proof.
On the other hand, Kustane has been wearing abd changing blouse and boots like a prostitute to attract the pockets of powers to be.

You changed your name from your old name Almale to Kistane. When and why? To please Christian Sgewa Amaras?
Sodo. When and why? To please the Oromos? Haven't you even sign an accord with Oromo to call yourself Sodo in place of Kistane. Is Prof Bahru Zewde, half Sodo, half Orma lying?
Shermutoch have nompride.
I expect more details on the name changes.

State what was involved: money, power, etc. Don't hide your ignorance of history. Even worse, don't burry truth for malicious self-delusion.

Watch your mouth. Everyone here in this forum condemns you for lack of civility. Don't call me ignorant because I have provided you historical map as proof that Alamale or presently Kistane and Mesqan or formerly Betezamora were never ever part of historical Gurage.

[Horus]

Odie,
I don't claim to know about the full history of all the Gurage sub-groups but I have all the love and highest respect for every Gurage clan or sub-group, some even more than my own. You and I shared a few linguistic facts and I was just as surprised to find so much unity and similarity in our languages and customs. This means one thing: our ignorance of the history and culture of the various Gurage communities does not amount to be a fact. Ignorance is not a fact. Dama does not know the Kistane Gurage. Dama's ignorance is not an evidence for Kistane not being a Gurage. This is what I call the ignorance cycle. If I call what I don't a fact, then my ignorance becomes the evidence for my ignorance. That is Dama! And, the reality is this: my ignorance does not and will not invalidate a fact. As for your opinion of Samuel Tafese, that is your right. He does not need your or mine approval to be what he want to be. He is the textbook Gurage self-made exemplar! I just want to say this: you can believe in anything you want to believe! I am forever the proudest human being to have been born into a people, a culture, an ethos called THE GURAGE!

Gurage doesn't cultivate, grow and nurtue Christian extremists like you. Both Christian and Muslim Gurages fought back enem8es of all kinds togetger. Christian extremists like you have and had nomplace in Gurage history. We turf them out when we find them.
Gurage is and has been proud of its name Gurage and maintained it for centurulies after centuries. Under fire, under suffering or under bliss, Gurage remained Gurage. History is the proof.
On the other hand, Kustane has been wearing abd changing blouse and boots like a prostitute to attract the pockets of powers to be.

You changed your name from your old name Almale to Kistane. When and why? To please Christian Sgewa Amaras?
Sodo. When and why? To please the Oromos? Haven't you even sign an accord with Oromo to call yourself Sodo in place of Kistane. Is Prof Bahru Zewde, half Sodo, half Orma lying?
Shermutoch have nompride.
I expect more details on the name changes.

State what was involved: money, power, etc. Don't hide your ignorance of history. Even worse, don't burry truth for malicious self-delusion.

Watch your mouth. Everyone here in this forum condemns you for lack of civility. Don't call me ignorant because I have provided you historical map as proof that Alamale or presently Kistane and Mesqan or formerly Betezamora were never ever part of historical Gurage.

አንተ የሴተኛ አዳሪ ልጅ ወያኔ! በል ያሻህን ቀባጥር! እንዳንተ ላለ ዉሻ ክስታኔ ያረጀ ጥይት እንኳ አያባክንም! ወፍ አራሽ

[Dama]

When did Aalmale become Kistane? Also, when did Kistane become one of the houses of Gurage.

According the map attached from the 1600s by the Jesuit missionary Manuel de Almeida, Almale was not part of the historical Gurage. Betezamora, now Mesqan, also did constitute a part of historical Gurage.

Innrecent year, Mesqan and Kistane voted to exit the Gurage union as did Silte previously. They formed their own zone called Mesqan & Kistane Zone. They are not Gurage.

All three, Mesqan, Kistane and Silte have never been historically Gurage. All had different names and were located outside of the historical Gurage. And they are not now by their volition. Stop referring to yourselves as Gurage. Reduce and stop the confusion. You are Kistane. You are not Gurage. I am.

See map below.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Pf5NVyK5xVrSwFE29

Actually, me unti high school and later college, I thought Gurage was mostly 7-bet. I never thought silte was even gurage. In addition, kistane mostly referred in 7-bet as Sodo, I never thought they were Gurage up until I met a friend in college. I was surprised, by then me as 7-bet language speaker could understand people from 7-but never able to understand silte, barely understand Sodo-gurage. Then my friend let me know they are kistane than Sodo-gurage. In any case I could not understand what he spoke. What he spoke looked close to Amharic. He was a fanatic Orthodox. With the help of horus there seems good correlation between the two dialects and could be learned. Then I heard about a lot other North-eastern group including Meskan etc. I even heard Sodo-gordena vs Sodo-Jida (one of them during TPLF era said they are Oromo). አፕረቲቭ ሆነ ማለት ነው! That is why a challenge to unify gurage. Some filthy rich people like owner of Sunshine are supporters of PP due to their investment …on and on.
Bye the way this is not exceptional to gurage, the belly worship culture is pervasive in all ethnics in Ethiopia

Your perception of Gurage as only 7Bet is historically and contempirarly correct. It's a poular and political perception. These two do not overlap, rather one follows the other.
Say for example, if for example, a traveller comes to our region and collects names of places to mark them on his map with their approximate and relative position to one another, he will record Gurage Zone for 7Bet, Mesqan & Kistane or Sodo Zone for this idiot and Silte for Silte. This is just reality looking at it objectively. In the early 1600s, when the Portuguese Jesuit missionary made tge map(provided in the link), he finds Gurafe, adjacent to it Betezamora for Mesqan and Alamale(Sodo now) adjacent to Betezamor.
These three units, you can call them now separatists, were never historically part of Gurage. They did not even have their present names in the past. They were called some weird names. May be they were foreign imposed names. As a result, they changed them to the present names. This paid PP may tell us if he is honest but never he is. A hoodwinker!

Close or distant linguistic relationship doesn't make groups ONE people. Amharic and Tigrinya are close. But they are one people. Even they had one polity under Tewdros and Yohanis, they were different. Eritrean Tigrey are different from Tigreys of Ethiopia. Varied dialects and customs and dialects, exposures to and shared experiences with others.

Especially difficult to mend is the fissures between Gurage on one hand, and the malicious and back stabbing exit of first Silte, followed by Mesqan and Kistane, at a time when we had two common projects and sabotaged and kilked them because they did not want the Unity of Gurage:
1) Establish a weitten common standard Gurage language
2)Mibilize Gurages and struggle for Gurage's constitutional right for its Region.

Kistane is also on historical records fir sabotage. It unilaterally laid down its arms and submitted to Menelick. You don't backstab your brother. You tell him, you warn him what you gonna do before you carry out your decision.

Comment about your young age perceptions of Gurage:
1. It was because Gurage was not united and education about Gurage was non-exitent in schools
2. Gurage was not united under one polity; contact between groups of Gurage was non-existent
3. In post-secondary in Ethiopia, if you majored in linguistics, sociology, history, anthropology, you would most definitely know a lot. You could even have written papers or books about Gurage and its malicious, backstabbing sabotateur groups.

I gues you studied science. I studied engineering.

[Odie]

You raise important points.
1. Of recent I have a feeling sodo gurage are trying to project in media as if they are prototype Gurage with “better culture” as if they are any better; which I find wrong. May be a bias of selective posting of tapes on the forum. They dig history and say they were the first to do this, that; start ጌጃ ስፈር bla bla. Even most music posted as gurage are in fact sodo gurage-giving the perception that the Sodo is the best of gurage. May be this is selection bias. Also others gurage like sebat-bet may hate to get embroiled in ethnic junk popularization.

I would not be surprised the same ego sodo have becomes a barrier for unity with other Gurage.

2. Prof Bahiru is muzzled not to talk much about Gurage history while he is a historian. Now he has the Oromo animals, his neighbors or relatives, are in power he would not dare to write or talk about it. Opening up on this should not have been shame-just to make facts straight. What we get on wikipedia is what the TPF non historian Paul Henz wrote.
This is unfortunate situation. Gurage may have blood relation with harare/harla, silte…others..etc but it did not help it much to unify as political one and rather stay as dissociated group for exploitation by whoever rolls the mat in 4 kilo. The North-eastern Gurage are a sellout to any one who runs Addis bs they can still keep their business running. They will focus on that instead of Gurage agenda or national agenda. Because of them everybody else will curse Gurage.
And of course they will keep dancing and feasting untill status que change. But this time people are noting and tomorrow may be different.

[Dama]

Odie

Thus dude from Sodo is ignorant. He doesn't know history. He doesn't know politics, linguistics or sociology. He is just a con artist with words. Semantics and efforts of word derivations by association or disassociation. A value of one semester linguistics class or a result of indepedent study on the web..
He is good at nothing. He wrote no papers despite his lies, peer reviewed and published none.
He is most shameless liar I ever came across. His total behavior is one lowclass thug doing some clerical job in a corner of an office.
On the poll I posted 88% of memmers voted he is the rudest member of this forum as of now.

Prof. Bahru Zewde is a historian, not a politician. He wrote some on Gurage as part of his prpfession of Ethiopian history. He observed that the Gurage problem has been lack of unity historically. Hd is right halfway. There were times when Gurage united.

Sodo betrayed Gurage in 1878 and submitted to Menelick without informing Gurage. Sodo and Mesqan weredas together with hostile minorities of Kebena and Mareqo voteed to kill the Gurage unity assembled under the former Gurage Zone and formed their own separate zone. In doing so they killed the project of Gurage Region allowed in the present constition and a common written Gurage language.
In the 1960s, when the Gurage Roads Construction project was underway, Kistane/Mesqan were invited to join and contribute like anyone else. They refused.

Sodo is politically no body for anyone. You cannot trust them. They do not want association or unity with Gurage. They have pumped up themselves as Christians and that identity they carved out ONLY against Gurage prejudices their perception of Gurage. On the other hand, they change their names, they undignify themselves to be accepted by Amara. To be accepted by Christian kings of Shewa, they changed their name to Kistane from Alamale. When Oromo grew more powerful, to appease Oromo, they signed an accord with Oromo to call themselves Sodo.

[Dama]

You raise important points.
1. Of recent I have a feeling sodo gurage are trying to project in media as if they are prototype Gurage with “better culture” as if they are any better; which I find wrong. May be a bias of selective posting of tapes on the forum. They dig history and say they were the first to do this, that; start ጌጃ ስፈር bla bla. Even most music posted as gurage are in fact sodo gurage-giving the perception that the Sodo is the best of gurage. May be this is selection bias. Also others gurage like sebat-bet may hate to get embroiled in ethnic junk popularization.

I would not be surprised the same ego sodo have becomes a barrier for unity with other Gurage.

Geja is a region in Oromia now. Its population used to speak semitic same or similar to that of present Sodo or Kistane or formerly Alamale. Due to Oromo influence, they lost their semitic language and adopted Oromo language. When they moved to Addis to work as day laborers, Menelick settled them on that location now known as Geja Sefer, named in memory of their firmer region, in Addis from the lands taken from Oromos. Ermias Legese Waqjira,a podcast journalist and formerly an EPRDF Communication Officer, is from Geja Sefer, now an Oromo of the Sodo Jida clan.

Musicians of fame, with memorable tracks, Gurage musicians dominate. Take for example, Nati Ker, Wabe Abdulrahman, Yitagesu Meles, Hailu Fereja, Bedru Kemal, Melaku Bireda, Amir Wada. Amdegebreal, Mohammed Awel, Mesfin Zeberga, etc. This Sodo ego inflated idiot ignore to play Gurage musics other than his small Sodo music.
Almost all of the Sodos just sing traditional songs such as Ebo, Alem Bire, etc. They lack innovation and renovation in music.

For Sodo survival as a semitic speaking group, their best chance is to stick to Gurage. As a minority in Gurage, not numbering more than 150,000, Gurage will help them retain their language as opposed to when assimilated by Oromo. With that they will also retain dignity while in Oromo they will be known as lost people or newly acquired population with all the disfranchisement that entails.

[Dama]

Many map makers and foreign travellers still recognize Gurage as not including Mesqan, Sodo and Silte. One reason could be that these groups informed the map makers that they were not Gurages.

See the map below
https://www.101lasttribes.com/tribes/gurage.html