Mereja.Forum

[Selam/]

That’s a classic dumb & dumber!

አቶ እገሌ የሚባል ጎጠኛ ኦሮሞ አማራ ቆሻሻ ነው በሚል አንዱን ምስኪን ጎንደሬ እንዳይሞት እንዳይሽር እንክት አድርጎ ደበደበው እንበል። በምን ሂሳብ ነው ይኸን ደንቆሮ ሰው ገልብጠህ በኮሶ ከማጠን አልፈህ የመጣበትን መንደር በሙሉ በእሳት የምታቃጥለው?

ጎሣን መሰረት ያደረገ ስድብና ብልግና የሚፅፍም የሚናገርም ወራዳና አናሳ ነው!

ስም ለመጥቀስ ፈራ ተባ አልክሳ lol

In principle, Selam is correct. But in practice, you will have to respond for every hater out there. If you follow Selam's theory, you will end up being mother theresa and everyone will abuse you. That is what happened to Amhara. When they insult you, you insult them back and put them in line

[sarcasm]

Hi Defend,

If Elias allows us to do a word search for constitution and constitutionalism on this site, I don't think anyone can beat me on campaigning for the constitutionalism. We also need to remember that the Tigray War is also partly a result of constitutional crisis.

I was the first on this forum in questioning the validity of Fano's use of force to reclaim "its lost territory"

I know you personally were against unconstitutional annexation of Tigrayan territories. But I am approaching the Fano vs Amhara Regional Government issue methodically. Fano is not holding other region's territory by force. It is the "legal" government of Amhara that is unconstitutionally holding territories of other regions. It is even acting against the constitution of Amhara Region. Why? Because it believes 'might is right'. Now, can this government accuse Fano of acting illegally? Can a government that prides itself in acting unconstitutionally and illegally, accuse Fano of being unconstitutional and illegal? Can this government lecture Fano on acting legally?

The Federal Government agreed to return its relationship with Tigray to constitutional order, and to remove Amhara Regional Government forces from illegally occupying parts of Tigray concurrently with Tigray handing over heavy weapons. A year and half after Tigray handed over heavy weapons per the agreement, the Federal Government has not performed its tasks as per the agreement. Amhara Regional government is still illegally occupying Tigray with the support of the Federal Government. Can the Amhara Regional Government and the Federal Government really have moral high ground over Fano on legality and constitutional rule?

[Abere]

Wondering you dare to use "Moral High Ground". Neither TPLF/Woyane, PP-OLF have moral high ground to walk free after killing 1.5 million people and destroyed the economy of at least three provinces: Tigary, Wolo, and N.Shewa/N.Gondar'

The moral high ground would have been to lock up in prison all the left over mama rat woyane, ring leader PP-OLF and its maids and a transitional government leading the country in a vision to draft a legal constitution and new federation system. The Dedebit TPLF/OLF by-law and their tribal slaughter- house federation shall be towed away - it is totally disabled and ready for curbside pick-up. Just accept the new normal, there will no more be Tigray Region, it will be different. Stealing does not give you ownership right.

The Federal Government agreed to return its relationship with Tigray to constitutional order, and to remove Amhara Regional Government forces from illegally occupying parts of Tigray concurrently with Tigray handing over heavy weapons. A year and half after Tigray handed over heavy weapons per the agreement, the Federal Government has not performed its tasks as per the agreement. Amhara Regional government is still illegally occupying Tigray with the support of the Federal Government. Can the Amhara Regional Government and the Federal Government really have moral high ground over Fano on legality and constitutional rule?

[Naga Tuma]

What is the logic behind why Habtamu repeatedly tried to highlight Girma's grandfather's name?

Is Habtamu an Oromo person for Minalachew?

ሳርኮ፥

መጫፈ ቁልቁሉ ተቀባዩ
ወታደሩ ነኝ ባዩ

ከሜላህ።

አከም ኣለህ ማለት ነዉ። በቅርቡ ጠይቄ ትርጉሙን ጭምር ኣወኩኝ።

ሐክሚ ቀብዳ? ስ አከማ?

የቃሉ እዛም፣ እዚህም መገኘት ገርሞኝ ኩሳ አቧራዉን ኣራግፎ ተነሳ ኣስባለኝ።

አማርኛ ስም ወደ ኦሮምኛ ስም መግባት ኣዲስ ሆነብህ? መቶዎች ዓመታትን ወደ ኋላ ብትሄድ ኦሮምኛ ስም ወደ አማርኛ መግባት ኣዲስ ይሆንብሃል? ወደ ኋላ ቆጥረህ ክንፉን ወለጋ ዉስጥ ታገኛለህ።

የኣዳኙ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነን ባዮች ኢትዮጵያዊያን ስንት እንደሆኑ ታዉቃለህ?

የነብዩ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነኝ ባይ ኢትዮጵያዊያንም ዬሉም? መሃመድ፣ እስማኤል፣ ወዘተ የተባሉ ኢትቶጵያዊያንን ኣታዉቅም?

የእነሱ ስሞችም እንዳልሆኑብህ ምነዉ ዓይኖችህ ሃብታሙ፣ አፍራሳ፣ ግርማ፣ አሬሮ ላይ ኣረፉ? ግርማ ምን ማለት ነዉ? ጉርሙስ ምን ማለት ነዉ?

[Naga Tuma]

sarcasm

አፍራሳ የአማራዎች ስም ነው። ልክ ይመር የሚል የአማራዎች ስም እንደሆነ። በበርካታ የአማራ አካባቢዎች በወሎ፤በጎንደር ይህ ስም የተለመደ ነው እንደ ዛሬ ዳዊት፤ዮናስ፤ እዮብ እያለ አዳሜ ለልጁ ስም ሳያወጣ።


ለምሳሌ ዳራር እና ደራርቱ አንድ አይነት ስም የመስላሉ። ትግሬዎች ድራር ብለው ልጃቸውን ስም ይሰጣሉ፤ ኦሮሞዎች ደራርቱ። የተለያዩ ነገሮች ናቸው ግን ስም ያለው ሞኝ አይነት ደራርቱ ድራር ነኝ ልትል ትችላለች ወይም ድራር እንሁ።

የነገር ቀዳዳ ፈልገህ ሾከክ ማለት ትፈልጋለህ - ውሻ በቀደደው ጅብ ይገባል አይነት። የጎሳ ግጭት ለማናፈስ ነው ይህ ሁሉ መሽሎክሎክ።

አበረ፥

ትግርኛ ተናጋሪ ኢትዮጵያዊ ከትግሬ ያልተወለደ አማራ አማራ ኣይዴለም ከላ፣

ቦረና የኦሮሞ አባት ነዉ ከተባለ፣

አማራ ማን ነዉ?
ኦሮሞ ማን ነዉ?

የኢትዮጵያን ሰፊ ሕዝብ ኣምሰዉ የበሰሉት ዜጎች መልስ ኣላቸዉ? ወይስ ገና እየበሰሉ ናቸዉ?

[Naga Tuma]

___ The true meaning of Federalism is not against Unitary system. The chemistry by which a Federalism created is not what TPLF or OLF are trying to forcefully push the throats of the people. There is no chemistry in the case of OLF/TPLF's own so-called federalism. A mono- criterion based process it does not involve the conventional or commonly accepted chemistry of establishing Federalism in Ethiopia. I my self do not oppose federalism, but I do not accept TPLF's/OLF's mono-ethnic (which unfederal system). It has to be towed away.

Hi Abere,

The regions were not organized on a 'mono- criterion based process'. There were 4 criteria, namely; “on the basis of the settlement patterns, language, identity, and consent of the people.” You and I do not know the relative weight given to the various criteria in the creation of regional states.

The drafters are alive and I have not seen a detailed breakdown of to what extent the criteria were applied in each woreda and awraja. I suspect derg time woredas continued without major changes. The regions were also originally called, region 1, region 2 etc. The regions themselves called themselves Oromia, Amhara etc. Regions can also re-organize themselves if they agree a better delimitation.

Notwithstanding the quest for a sound federal structure in Ethiopia, two very simple questions for you:

Do you know the length of time it took to organize the regions or reorganize Ethiopia after 1991?

Do you know the authoritative experts that had the necessary training to do it and have taken full responsibility about having done it to the best of their expertise?

[Naga Tuma]

በትለርን ሲከተል ያልተማረዉን ኢትዮጵያዊ አስተሳሰብ ነዉ የምትጠይቀዉ?

ድሮ ሳይሆን በዚህ ዘመን፣ ኢትቶጵያ ዉስጥ ሳይሆን አሜሪካ ዉስጥ ታጥቆ የተከተለን በትለር ቀና ብሎ ኣይቶ ሰር ማስባልም ኣለ።

ያለምክንያት ኣይዴለም እኮ የምንታዘበዉ።

That’s a classic dumb & dumber!

አቶ እገሌ የሚባል ጎጠኛ ኦሮሞ አማራ ቆሻሻ ነው በሚል አንዱን ምስኪን ጎንደሬ እንዳይሞት እንዳይሽር እንክት አድርጎ ደበደበው እንበል። በምን ሂሳብ ነው ይኸን ደንቆሮ ሰው ገልብጠህ በኮሶ ከማጠን አልፈህ የመጣበትን መንደር በሙሉ በእሳት የምታቃጥለው?

ጎሣን መሰረት ያደረገ ስድብና ብልግና የሚፅፍም የሚናገርም ወራዳና አናሳ ነው!

ስም ለመጥቀስ ፈራ ተባ አልክሳ lol

In principle, Selam is correct. But in practice, you will have to respond for every hater out there. If you follow Selam's theory, you will end up being mother theresa and everyone will abuse you. That is what happened to Amhara. When they insult you, you insult them back and put them in line

[sarcasm]

ሳርኮ፥

መጫፈ ቁልቁሉ ተቀባዩ
ወታደሩ ነኝ ባዩ

ከሜላህ።

አከም ኣለህ ማለት ነዉ። በቅርቡ ጠይቄ ትርጉሙን ጭምር ኣወኩኝ።

ሐክሚ ቀብዳ? ስ አከማ?

የቃሉ እዛም፣ እዚህም መገኘት ገርሞኝ ኩሳ አቧራዉን ኣራግፎ ተነሳ ኣስባለኝ።

አማርኛ ስም ወደ ኦሮምኛ ስም መግባት ኣዲስ ሆነብህ? መቶዎች ዓመታትን ወደ ኋላ ብትሄድ ኦሮምኛ ስም ወደ አማርኛ መግባት ኣዲስ ይሆንብሃል? ወደ ኋላ ቆጥረህ ክንፉን ወለጋ ዉስጥ ታገኛለህ።

የኣዳኙ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነን ባዮች ኢትዮጵያዊያን ስንት እንደሆኑ ታዉቃለህ?

የነብዩ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነኝ ባይ ኢትዮጵያዊያንም ዬሉም? መሃመድ፣ እስማኤል፣ ወዘተ የተባሉ ኢትቶጵያዊያንን ኣታዉቅም?

የእነሱ ስሞችም እንዳልሆኑብህ ምነዉ ዓይኖችህ ሃብታሙ፣ አፍራሳ፣ ግርማ፣ አሬሮ ላይ ኣረፉ? ግርማ ምን ማለት ነዉ? ጉርሙስ ምን ማለት ነዉ?

Akkam obboleessa Naga,

I was not taking issue with how some Amharas have Oromo names or some Oromos have Amharic names. I have many uncles and aunties with Amharic names. መሃመድና እስማኤል አልፈን አሁን ሞኒካና ሮናልዶ መባል ጀምረናል።

Notwithstanding the quest for a sound federal structure in Ethiopia, two very simple questions for you:

Do you know the length of time it took to organize the regions or reorganize Ethiopia after 1991?

Do you know the authoritative experts that had the necessary training to do it and have taken full responsibility about having done it to the best of their expertise?

በደርግ መንግስት የተዋቀረው የኢትዮጵያ ብሔረሰቦች ጥናት ኢንስቲትዩትን ባዘጋጀው የብሔረሰቦች ብዛታቸውን፣ ዓይነታቸውንና አሰፋፈራቸውን ጥናት መሰረት አድርጎ ነው የተከለለው። ዶ/ር ፋሲል ናሆምና ዶ/ር ፍሰሀ አስፋው የጥናቱና የአካለሉ ተሳታፊ ነበሩ። መጽሐፍ ስለ መጻፋቸው አላቅም። The questions you raised are a good subject for a masters dissertation.

[Naga Tuma]

ሳርኮ፥

መጫፈ ቁልቁሉ ተቀባዩ
ወታደሩ ነኝ ባዩ

ከሜላህ።

አከም ኣለህ ማለት ነዉ። በቅርቡ ጠይቄ ትርጉሙን ጭምር ኣወኩኝ።

ሐክሚ ቀብዳ? ስ አከማ?

የቃሉ እዛም፣ እዚህም መገኘት ገርሞኝ ኩሳ አቧራዉን ኣራግፎ ተነሳ ኣስባለኝ።

አማርኛ ስም ወደ ኦሮምኛ ስም መግባት ኣዲስ ሆነብህ? መቶዎች ዓመታትን ወደ ኋላ ብትሄድ ኦሮምኛ ስም ወደ አማርኛ መግባት ኣዲስ ይሆንብሃል? ወደ ኋላ ቆጥረህ ክንፉን ወለጋ ዉስጥ ታገኛለህ።

የኣዳኙ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነን ባዮች ኢትዮጵያዊያን ስንት እንደሆኑ ታዉቃለህ?

የነብዩ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነኝ ባይ ኢትዮጵያዊያንም ዬሉም? መሃመድ፣ እስማኤል፣ ወዘተ የተባሉ ኢትቶጵያዊያንን ኣታዉቅም?

የእነሱ ስሞችም እንዳልሆኑብህ ምነዉ ዓይኖችህ ሃብታሙ፣ አፍራሳ፣ ግርማ፣ አሬሮ ላይ ኣረፉ? ግርማ ምን ማለት ነዉ? ጉርሙስ ምን ማለት ነዉ?

Akkam obboleessa Naga,

I was not taking issue with how some Amharas have Oromo names or some Oromos have Amharic names. I have many uncles and aunties with Amharic names. መሃመድና እስማኤል አልፈን አሁን ሞኒካና ሮናልዶ መባል ጀምረናል።

Notwithstanding the quest for a sound federal structure in Ethiopia, two very simple questions for you:

Do you know the length of time it took to organize the regions or reorganize Ethiopia after 1991?

Do you know the authoritative experts that had the necessary training to do it and have taken full responsibility about having done it to the best of their expertise?

በደርግ መንግስት የተዋቀረው የኢትዮጵያ ብሔረሰቦች ጥናት ኢንስቲትዩትን ባዘጋጀው የብሔረሰቦች ብዛታቸውን፣ ዓይነታቸውንና አሰፋፈራቸውን ጥናት መሰረት አድርጎ ነው የተከለለው። ዶ/ር ፋሲል ናሆምና ዶ/ር ፍሰሀ አስፋው የጥናቱና የአካለሉ ተሳታፊ ነበሩ። መጽሐፍ ስለ መጻፋቸው አላቅም። The questions you raised are a good subject for a masters dissertation.

Thank you for the information.

So, it sounds like the study was sanctioned by the Ethiopian government before 1991.

The Ethiopian government that took power in 1991 implemented it.

Did the Ethiopian government that sanctioned the study approve its implementation by the new Ethiopian government?

Do you know if the two presumed experts you mentioned are alive today and if they, in hindsight, stand behind their involvement?

[sarcasm]

ሳርኮ፥

መጫፈ ቁልቁሉ ተቀባዩ
ወታደሩ ነኝ ባዩ

ከሜላህ።

አከም ኣለህ ማለት ነዉ። በቅርቡ ጠይቄ ትርጉሙን ጭምር ኣወኩኝ።

ሐክሚ ቀብዳ? ስ አከማ?

የቃሉ እዛም፣ እዚህም መገኘት ገርሞኝ ኩሳ አቧራዉን ኣራግፎ ተነሳ ኣስባለኝ።

አማርኛ ስም ወደ ኦሮምኛ ስም መግባት ኣዲስ ሆነብህ? መቶዎች ዓመታትን ወደ ኋላ ብትሄድ ኦሮምኛ ስም ወደ አማርኛ መግባት ኣዲስ ይሆንብሃል? ወደ ኋላ ቆጥረህ ክንፉን ወለጋ ዉስጥ ታገኛለህ።

የኣዳኙ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነን ባዮች ኢትዮጵያዊያን ስንት እንደሆኑ ታዉቃለህ?

የነብዩ ዘር ነኝ፣ ወታደሩ ነኝ ባይ ኢትዮጵያዊያንም ዬሉም? መሃመድ፣ እስማኤል፣ ወዘተ የተባሉ ኢትቶጵያዊያንን ኣታዉቅም?

የእነሱ ስሞችም እንዳልሆኑብህ ምነዉ ዓይኖችህ ሃብታሙ፣ አፍራሳ፣ ግርማ፣ አሬሮ ላይ ኣረፉ? ግርማ ምን ማለት ነዉ? ጉርሙስ ምን ማለት ነዉ?

Akkam obboleessa Naga,

I was not taking issue with how some Amharas have Oromo names or some Oromos have Amharic names. I have many uncles and aunties with Amharic names. መሃመድና እስማኤል አልፈን አሁን ሞኒካና ሮናልዶ መባል ጀምረናል።

Notwithstanding the quest for a sound federal structure in Ethiopia, two very simple questions for you:

Do you know the length of time it took to organize the regions or reorganize Ethiopia after 1991?

Do you know the authoritative experts that had the necessary training to do it and have taken full responsibility about having done it to the best of their expertise?

በደርግ መንግስት የተዋቀረው የኢትዮጵያ ብሔረሰቦች ጥናት ኢንስቲትዩትን ባዘጋጀው የብሔረሰቦች ብዛታቸውን፣ ዓይነታቸውንና አሰፋፈራቸውን ጥናት መሰረት አድርጎ ነው የተከለለው። ዶ/ር ፋሲል ናሆምና ዶ/ር ፍሰሀ አስፋው የጥናቱና የአካለሉ ተሳታፊ ነበሩ። መጽሐፍ ስለ መጻፋቸው አላቅም። The questions you raised are a good subject for a masters dissertation.

Thank you for the information.

So, it sounds like the study was sanctioned by the Ethiopian government before 1991.

The Ethiopian government that took power in 1991 implemented it.

Did the Ethiopian government that sanctioned the study approve its implementation by the new Ethiopian government?

Do you know if the two presumed experts you mentioned are alive today and if they, in hindsight, stand behind their involvement?

Hi brother Naga,

Both of the academicians are in their 80s now. See below the link for Dr Fasil's recent interview.


https://addisfortune.news/constitutiona ... nal-court/

Dr Feseha aslo wrote a book on the Derg's study of nationalities after he retired. He was a lectures at AAU before that. I was not able to buy the book online.


https://www.ethiopianreporter.com/57592/

[Naga Tuma]

Thank you Sarcasm for this decent response and reference.

Got back to this thread now.

Read little portions of both. I hope to read them in full when I get some time.

Just briefly, the first one starts with a mix of a regret and a justification, not the best of a mix for a scholarly discourse.

The second one appears to use the concept of ብሔረሰብ correctly.