Mereja.Forum

[DefendTheTruth]

It is not easy to estimate how much a cost an implementation project of an enterprise scale software system may incur on a business as this depends heavily on many different factors prevailing in the company itself at the implementation time. It is in fact difficult to google and find out a fair estimate of what such projects have incurred on the previous similar projects elsewhere.

https://www.workwisellc.com/blog/erp-software-cost/

Ethio Telecom has now reported to have implemented an ERP system at the cost of 59 Million Dollars. This could be a staggering cost to the nation's coffers. It begs to shed light on the break-down of the costs so that it could easily be analyzed and understood by all stake-holders and judge for themselves if such a high cost is justifiable.

If it is not justifiable then it is very much important to know why the over-cost was caused? ERP is a a central system in any company and many of the rest companies in the country are supposed to follow the suite of the Ethiopian Telecom and implement their own similar software systems, sooner or later. Otherwise implementation by a single company in a networked businesses wouldn't do much of the expected gains from such a project, in my view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterpris ... e_planning

Specially, it is important to understand how good the prevailing infrastructure in the country is to implement such an enterprise scale system. If the infrastructure is not reliable, the resources to implement and maintain the system are not easily available in the country itself, the level of the users (the employees of the implementing the system) in dealing with such a new tool to do their daily jobs (acceptance and mastering of the tool) is low and other similar factors could incur even a larger sum of money than the implementation cost and that will eat up the dire resource of the nation.

BTW., can someone guess where we are now in the 4 Eras I listed sometime in the past here?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=182086&p=941106&hi ... as#p941106

[jennifer]

Wrong title. It is Ethiopian Electric not Ethiopian Telecom Anyways, it is one of the most expensive software projects I've ever heard tbh.

It is not easy to estimate how much a cost an implementation project of an enterprise scale software system may incur on a business as this depends heavily on many different factors prevailing in the company itself at the implementation time. It is in fact difficult to google and find out a fair estimate of what such projects have incurred on the previous similar projects elsewhere.

https://www.workwisellc.com/blog/erp-software-cost/

Ethio Telecom has now reported to have implemented an ERP system at the cost of 59 Million Dollars. This could be a staggering cost to the nation's coffers. It begs to shed light on the break-down of the costs so that it could easily be analyzed and understood by all stake-holders and judge for themselves if such a high cost is justifiable.

If it is not justifiable then it is very much important to know why the over-cost was caused? ERP is a a central system in any company and many of the rest companies in the country are supposed to follow the suite of the Ethiopian Telecom and implement their own similar software systems, sooner or later. Otherwise implementation by a single company in a networked businesses wouldn't do much of the expected gains from such a project, in my view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterpris ... e_planning

Specially, it is important to understand how good the prevailing infrastructure in the country is to implement such an enterprise scale system. If the infrastructure is not reliable, the resources to implement and maintain the system are not easily available in the country itself, the level of the users (the employees of the implementing the system) in dealing with such a new tool to do their daily jobs (acceptance and mastering of the tool) is low and other similar factors could incur even a larger sum of money than the implementation cost and that will eat up the dire resource of the nation.

BTW., can someone guess where we are now in the 4 Eras I listed sometime in the past here?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=182086&p=941106&hi ... as#p941106

[DefendTheTruth]

jennifer,

thank you for the correction, I am not sure why I confused the two. It is in fact a very expensive undertaking in my view too.

In one of the links I posted above it states: "Small-to-mid-sized businesses can expect the cost of software and services combined to range anywhere from $75,000 to $750,000. Certainly, a significant investment, but a properly implemented ERP system will pay for itself quickly."

Please pay attention to the wording of "properly implemented". In fact it is not only the proper implementation but also a number of factors that could contribute to the success or failure of such a project.

On top of that I have never heard of an ERP-Provider called "Mahindra" (an Indian Company), if there is one, then it is certainly not one of the top provides (not in top ten, I think but could be wrong).

If they opted to implment it then, I don't know why they didn't choose one of the top providers, SAP, Oracle, Microsoft and others well known in the market.

It helps to automate their business processes at the same time don't forget also that these processes will now be dependent on the availability of this tool. The tool's availability itself is in turn dependent on the reliability of the infrastructure it is running on and other factors I mentioned before. Hope it will succeed and encourage others to follow the suite of the Ethiopian Electric Authority.

[opmerc]

Both EEP and Ethio Telecom are not Small-to-mid-sized businesses. They are SOEs with considerable size. The price for such software would typically reflect the implementation across their full infrastructure, staff training and medium-to-long term support costs. So I don't think this number is that drastic. I have heard of government branches developing simple websites for millions.

But I agree with you some transparency on the bidding process would be helpful.

[DefendTheTruth]

Both EEP and Ethio Telecom are not Small-to-mid-sized businesses. They are SOEs with considerable size. The price for such software would typically reflect the implementation across their full infrastructure, staff training and medium-to-long term support costs. So I don't think this number is that drastic. I have heard of government branches developing simple websites for millions.

But I agree with you some transparency on the bidding process would be helpful.

I am not sure what you mean by your wording of "implementation across their full infrastructure" but I think any implementation project, be it for small, mid or large sizes, or even SOE like this one, means implementation of the ERP itself. Not laying down the foundation of the infrastructure itself. Those costs you mentioned are part of the implementation project, not part of the operational activities.

Or do you mean that they have for example already paid the salaries of the staffs to operate it?

If you think it is drastic, then could you also mention any other project that costed in the same range or similar elsewhere ?

Did I hear just yesterday or so Dr. Abey talking about the country losing around 1 Billion $ annualy on lost revenues due to poor planning and implementation of the GERD project?

I don't have a reason to assume that such instances are isolated cases rather sort of part of business as a usual.

[opmerc]

This typically means testing for, customizing and getting the system up and running across on all machines. As is often the case with government computers, they use incredibly outdated machines and sometimes customized operating systems.This is particularly true in Ethiopia. That means making sure the incoming software can function reliably in such an environment and having staff on hand that has the relevant expertise. Then you have to train the government employees that use the system. Multiply this step to several hundred offices across the country. Then there is ongoing support and maintenance costs.

I don't have any direct examples for you because often the vendors and the governments don't publish these contracts but there are some infamous examples out there, for example; US healthcare.gov that cost more than 300 million dollars.

What Dr. Abiy mentioned the previous day is not related to this subject. He is talking about lost earnings by not getting GERD up and running. If GERD was finished today, the combined benefit of having uninterrupted power for all our factories and the sale of excess electricity to our neighbors would be generating a billion plus per year for us. This money is what we are missing out on every year we delay the GERD.

[DefendTheTruth]

This typically means testing for, customizing and getting the system up and running across on all machines. As is often the case with government computers, they use incredibly outdated machines and sometimes customized operating systems.This is particularly true in Ethiopia. That means making sure the incoming software can function reliably in such an environment and having staff on hand that has the relevant expertise. Then you have to train the government employees that use the system. Multiply this step to several hundred offices across the country. Then there is ongoing support and maintenance costs.

I don't have any direct examples for you because often the vendors and the governments don't publish these contracts but there are some infamous examples out there, for example; US healthcare.gov that cost more than 300 million dollars.

What Dr. Abiy mentioned the previous day is not related to this subject. He is talking about lost earnings by not getting GERD up and running. If GERD was finished today, the combined benefit of having uninterrupted power for all our factories and the sale of excess electricity to our neighbors would be generating a billion plus per year for us. This money is what we are missing out on every year we delay the GERD.

opmec,

no pun intended but I think you too are a good politician and not that good technician, some of your claims here don't necessarily make much sense. But it is good that you started defending the government. I too am trying to defend it, because the government will be gone tomorrow but the people remain and this issue belongs to the people.


But do you know what Ethiopia currently needs urgently? Fewer politicians and much more technocrats. We have a lot of politicians but most of them are not even in a position to tell us what their political program looks like.

It is costing the country dearly, I am affraid.

[sun]

"An ERP"?

Do you mean EPP or EPRP? Please excuse my ignorance though.

It is not easy to estimate how much a cost an implementation project of an enterprise scale software system may incur on a business as this depends heavily on many different factors prevailing in the company itself at the implementation time. It is in fact difficult to google and find out a fair estimate of what such projects have incurred on the previous similar projects elsewhere.

https://www.workwisellc.com/blog/erp-software-cost/

Ethio Telecom has now reported to have implemented an ERP system at the cost of 59 Million Dollars. This could be a staggering cost to the nation's coffers. It begs to shed light on the break-down of the costs so that it could easily be analyzed and understood by all stake-holders and judge for themselves if such a high cost is justifiable.

If it is not justifiable then it is very much important to know why the over-cost was caused? ERP is a a central system in any company and many of the rest companies in the country are supposed to follow the suite of the Ethiopian Telecom and implement their own similar software systems, sooner or later. Otherwise implementation by a single company in a networked businesses wouldn't do much of the expected gains from such a project, in my view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterpris ... e_planning

Specially, it is important to understand how good the prevailing infrastructure in the country is to implement such an enterprise scale system. If the infrastructure is not reliable, the resources to implement and maintain the system are not easily available in the country itself, the level of the users (the employees of the implementing the system) in dealing with such a new tool to do their daily jobs (acceptance and mastering of the tool) is low and other similar factors could incur even a larger sum of money than the implementation cost and that will eat up the dire resource of the nation.

BTW., can someone guess where we are now in the 4 Eras I listed sometime in the past here?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=182086&p=941106&hi ... as#p941106

[opmerc]

opmec,

no pun intended but I think you too are a good politician and not that good technician, some of your claims here don't necessarily make much sense. But it is good that you started defending the government. I too am trying to defend it, because the government will be gone tomorrow but the people remain and this issue belongs to the people.


But do you know what Ethiopia currently needs urgently? Fewer politicians and much more technocrats. We have a lot of politicians but most of them are not even in a position to tell us what their political program looks like.

It is costing the country dearly, I am affraid.

Wait what? What part of what I said didn't make sense? And where do you get that I just started defending the government? I oppose and defend the government depending on the event. If I see something worth standing against I do so. This subject isn't it.

I do know what the country needs actually. And among the things it doesn't need is faux outrage. There are many on social media who have taken to it like it's fashion and it's just plain boring.

If you want to get technical and point out what I said wasn't true or accurate, go ahead.

[DefendTheTruth]

opmec,

no pun intended but I think you too are a good politician and not that good technician, some of your claims here don't necessarily make much sense. But it is good that you started defending the government. I too am trying to defend it, because the government will be gone tomorrow but the people remain and this issue belongs to the people.


But do you know what Ethiopia currently needs urgently? Fewer politicians and much more technocrats. We have a lot of politicians but most of them are not even in a position to tell us what their political program looks like.

It is costing the country dearly, I am affraid.

Wait what? What part of what I said didn't make sense? And where do you get that I just started defending the government? I oppose and defend the government depending on the event. If I see something worth standing against I do so. This subject isn't it.

I do know what the country needs actually. And among the things it doesn't need is faux outrage. There are many on social media who have taken to it like it's fashion and it's just plain boring.

If you want to get technical and point out what I said wasn't true or accurate, go ahead.

Okay, let me put some few facts here and see how you made sense.

An enterprise software, which an ERP is a part, is normally built on a technology that is known as client-server Architecture. Hope you understand what that means.

Among others this means also that it is supposed to be implemented on two different hardwares (the server and the client). The processing itself is typically divided into the two parts, the major and essential part of it is suppossed to run on the server while the clients connect to the server to get the service provided by the server. The server is a central entity (runs mostly in the so called "server room" in many enterprises, or an more expensive data center or even in a cloud. The clients are the end user pc, laptop, mobile etc. Just like we do here with the Ethiopian Review's Forum. The server stands somewhere, but I connect to it to get the needed service. If my computer is a performant or not doesn't make that a difference (I need the performance of the server and my connection to the server). Modern software are typically implemented on the basis of what is called a thin-client. Do you understand what that mean?

If this is the case then your claim about, exa. those hihglighted in red blow may make a sense to you still.

"As is often the case with government computers, they use incredibly outdated machines and sometimes customized operating systems.This is particularly true in Ethiopia. That means making sure the incoming software can function reliably in such an environment and having staff on hand that has the relevant expertise. Then you have to train the government employees that use the system. Multiply this step to several hundred offices across the country. Then there is ongoing support and maintenance costs."

Training the end-users, staff that is going to operate/maintain is part of an implementation project any where I know of so far, nothing peculiar to Ethiopia or EEPA.
In my view 59 Million $ is expensive, and we don't even know which software they bought, if the said Mahindra campany is the vendor or an implementation partner is not clear, EEPA doesn't even publish any news about it on its offical web-page, it seems it is not news worthy for them, after spending that much money and shed light on it in general terms so that the public may get some first hand information.

This is only the introduction cost, there could be still more cost that could be incurred to customize the standard software (not operating system) to adapt it to the special requirements of EEPA itself. More transparence is needed, in my view, but I am not discouraging their introduction of the tool because that is the future.

But I was not trying to highlight your "lack of expertise" in the topic here, rather trying to draw your attention how politiking in ethiopia is eating up many resources from us. I am afraid even those computer scientists put down their qualifications aside and discuss about politics in the next door, that was my concern.

Politics is consuming many resources that we have but it is also politics that we are very poor in performance, that was my message. I have no intention about any thing faux outrage or similar, Cheers!

[DefendTheTruth]

opmerc,

one more thing I would like to add:

an enterprise software is supposed to automate the business process in the company. This typically also means that you have to map your real processes to the respective "computer-intern" (virtual) counterparts, and that is a very costy exercise depending on how much your real processes correspond to the "standard process" the vendor has conceived in the engineering of its software system.

I don't know how standardized processes are in ethiopian businesses but intoducing a standard software demands also adapting the standard as conceived by the software developer.

[opmerc]

Okay, let me put some few facts here and see how you made sense.

An enterprise software, which an ERP is a part, is normally built on a technology that is known as client-server Architecture. Hope you understand what that means.

Among others this means also that it is supposed to be implemented on two different hardwares (the server and the client). The processing itself is typically divided into the two parts, the major and essential part of it is suppossed to run on the server while the clients connect to the server to get the service provided by the server. The server is a central entity (runs mostly in the so called "server room" in many enterprises, or an more expensive data center or even in a cloud. The clients are the end user pc, laptop, mobile etc. Just like we do here with the Ethiopian Review's Forum. The server stands somewhere, but I connect to it to get the needed service. If my computer is a performant or not doesn't make that a difference (I need the performance of the server and my connection to the server). Modern software are typically implemented on the basis of what is called a thin-client. Do you understand what that mean?

If this is the case then your claim about, exa. those hihglighted in red blow may make a sense to you still.

"As is often the case with government computers, they use incredibly outdated machines and sometimes customized operating systems.This is particularly true in Ethiopia. That means making sure the incoming software can function reliably in such an environment and having staff on hand that has the relevant expertise. Then you have to train the government employees that use the system. Multiply this step to several hundred offices across the country. Then there is ongoing support and maintenance costs."

Training the end-users, staff that is going to operate/maintain is part of an implementation project any where I know of so far, nothing peculiar to Ethiopia or EEPA.
In my view 59 Million $ is expensive, and we don't even know which software they bought, if the said Mahindra campany is the vendor or an implementation partner is not clear, EEPA doesn't even publish any news about it on its offical web-page, it seems it is not news worthy for them, after spending that much money and shed light on it in general terms so that the public may get some first hand information.

This is only the introduction cost, there could be still more cost that could be incurred to customize the standard software (not operating system) to adapt it to the special requirements of EEPA itself. More transparence is needed, in my view, but I am not discouraging their introduction of the tool because that is the future.

But I was not trying to highlight your "lack of expertise" in the topic here, rather trying to draw your attention how politiking in ethiopia is eating up many resources from us. I am afraid even those computer scientists put down their qualifications aside and discuss about politics in the next door, that was my concern.

Politics is consuming many resources that we have but it is also politics that we are very poor in performance, that was my message. I have no intention about any thing faux outrage or similar, Cheers!

To start, yes the software does have a server component and an end-user component. The part I was talking about mainly is the end-user component. Ethiopian government end-user computers rely on a modified version of Windows that NISS built. I believe the version they relied on as a backbone was windows XP. Making it a customized Operating System.

So this incoming ERP software would have to be backwards-compatible with not only this incredibly obsolete Windows version but also be able to function alongside any of the modifications introduced. This requires the company selling the software to modify the package to fit in this very specific environment and also carry extra staff on hand that have the expertise of legacy systems. I say extra because it is difficult finding people who specialize in obsolete tech and don't base their careers on the latest and greatest.

I don't know the state and makeup of the server infrastructure for these institutions but the Operating System they are powered by is also a factor. So whether it's a Windows or Linux STACK will determine whether this ERP software and any associated databases can function on it in the first place. So to answer your question on why the winning bidder wasn't some fancy western company, a likely scenario is that their offerings either were too pricey or couldn't be accommodated in our server tech STACK.

So any of your googled points about modern software design and implementation don't apply in this case.

The staff training and maintenance I brought up is to give you a better understanding of why one software alone can end up costing millions of dollars not because training would be specific to EEP or any Ethiopian institution. The part that matters in this case is the size of the institution (very large) and the fact that the training would have to be conducted in local languages in some instances. Those things will mean extra costs on top of what it would mean to apply it to any enterprise.

But anyway you still didn't give me a single point for why that number should be considered high in the first place. Without any benchmark of what goes into such implementation or other use cases that demonstrate typical cost, what exactly are you relying besides gut feelings that paying this much for this type of software in this environment is somehow expensive?

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, I only said I don't see this purchase being particularly out of the norm but I also would like to see more transparency in the bidding process as a general rule.

[Ethoash]

i see DDT is jealous of opmerc deep knowledge

anyhow here is how u implement upgrading


if u buy new computer and load new software

u dont have to go to 1000 office of ERP. what u do is u rent one warehouse and u lineup all the computer and load all the software from the server.. a few technical can do the job not even a technical can do this job .. u write instruction how to load the software... once the software loaded pack the computer and if ten computer goes to Ambo u send those computers to Ambo if 100 goes to Adama then u send those computer and few people will seat up those computers in the other end..

now if u want to upgrade the software only on the old computer u use remote access from head office to upgrade the software in one shoot .. or send the cd to each office they can upgrade themselves for sure each office have computer technical

even if u want to train those technical or how to use the software u call few representative to one location and u give them training


now about the cost .. ERP is billion dollar company so 59 million it doesn't seems that much high .. using Indian software is a good thing why because even the big guys using the Indian to do the job they only have the name otherwise the same guys is working in big brands..

now how can we make sure the price is right very simple u pay the CEO the right market salary.. for example the purchaser and the CEO will buy this at inflated price and they will deposit their cut in foreign bank.. u cant stop this corruption if u change CEO or purchaser million time how u stop is very simple the CEO must get profit sharing ... for example if EPP profit is one billion then u pay him 10% of that .. then THE ceo will make sure the company get the best product at the best price .. if everyone get paid according to the profit sharing at least the top management u will see improvement .. otherwise we ባለህበት እርገጥ ነው

Ethiopia TELE come to Ethiopia just five years after phone invented but ask yourself why we never develop our phone company the answer is very simple we dont pay our CEO . so why would u expected him to work instead he is busy looting us .. u cant stop corruption but if u reduce it to 3% in just ten years we will see big difference...

look around u ask yourself how company private company make big improvement the answer is the owner of the company work hard he is not engaged in looting his own company to deprecate the same system all we have to do is make the CEO and top management share holder who make money when the company make money and lose when the company lose money... in this way the CEO have no limited amount of salary depending on how much he make us profit he take 10% so u might make 100 million or billion of birr it all depend on his ability... that is how other civilized world stop or reduced corruption otherwise try to pay him 100,000 birr and expecting him to work is a joke.

dont bring the case of AIRLINES CEO he also take bribe it happened to be he is nice guy who work and loot .... otherwise if u think u will not take bribe fool yourself

[DefendTheTruth]

To start, yes the software does have a server component and an end-user component. The part I was talking about mainly is the end-user component. Ethiopian government end-user computers rely on a modified version of Windows that NISS built. I believe the version they relied on as a backbone was windows XP. Making it a customized Operating System.

So this incoming ERP software would have to be backwards-compatible with not only this incredibly obsolete Windows version but also be able to function alongside any of the modifications introduced. This requires the company selling the software to modify the package to fit in this very specific environment and also carry extra staff on hand that have the expertise of legacy systems. I say extra because it is difficult finding people who specialize in obsolete tech and don't base their careers on the latest and greatest.

I don't know the state and makeup of the server infrastructure for these institutions but the Operating System they are powered by is also a factor. So whether it's a Windows or Linux STACK will determine whether this ERP software and any associated databases can function on it in the first place. So to answer your question on why the winning bidder wasn't some fancy western company, a likely scenario is that their offerings either were too pricey or couldn't be accommodated in our server tech STACK.


So any of your googled points about modern software design and implementation don't apply in this case.

The staff training and maintenance I brought up is to give you a better understanding of why one software alone can end up costing millions of dollars not because training would be specific to EEP or any Ethiopian institution. The part that matters in this case is the size of the institution (very large) and the fact that the training would have to be conducted in local languages in some instances. Those things will mean extra costs on top of what it would mean to apply it to any enterprise.

But anyway you still didn't give me a single point for why that number should be considered high in the first place. Without any benchmark of what goes into such implementation or other use cases that demonstrate typical cost, what exactly are you relying besides gut feelings that paying this much for this type of software in this environment is somehow expensive?

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, I only said I don't see this purchase being particularly out of the norm but I also would like to see more transparency in the bidding process as a general rule.

Could you please elaborate what you mean by "server tech STACK".

Why you think that I have googled the points I made, if I made any?

You know I remembered a conversation I had with some fellows many years back and how I closed that conversation. After some discussion I simply told them "the first step towards knowledge is realizing that someone doesn't know (many) things". They considered me someone who lacked a self-confidence in what I already knew and not on a par with their "gifted" af-cholenat".

I hope that they (those fellows) have realised by now that they lacked some basic understanding about themselves and others back then.

[opmerc]

To start, yes the software does have a server component and an end-user component. The part I was talking about mainly is the end-user component. Ethiopian government end-user computers rely on a modified version of Windows that NISS built. I believe the version they relied on as a backbone was windows XP. Making it a customized Operating System.

So this incoming ERP software would have to be backwards-compatible with not only this incredibly obsolete Windows version but also be able to function alongside any of the modifications introduced. This requires the company selling the software to modify the package to fit in this very specific environment and also carry extra staff on hand that have the expertise of legacy systems. I say extra because it is difficult finding people who specialize in obsolete tech and don't base their careers on the latest and greatest.

I don't know the state and makeup of the server infrastructure for these institutions but the Operating System they are powered by is also a factor. So whether it's a Windows or Linux STACK will determine whether this ERP software and any associated databases can function on it in the first place. So to answer your question on why the winning bidder wasn't some fancy western company, a likely scenario is that their offerings either were too pricey or couldn't be accommodated in our server tech STACK.


So any of your googled points about modern software design and implementation don't apply in this case.

The staff training and maintenance I brought up is to give you a better understanding of why one software alone can end up costing millions of dollars not because training would be specific to EEP or any Ethiopian institution. The part that matters in this case is the size of the institution (very large) and the fact that the training would have to be conducted in local languages in some instances. Those things will mean extra costs on top of what it would mean to apply it to any enterprise.

But anyway you still didn't give me a single point for why that number should be considered high in the first place. Without any benchmark of what goes into such implementation or other use cases that demonstrate typical cost, what exactly are you relying besides gut feelings that paying this much for this type of software in this environment is somehow expensive?

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, I only said I don't see this purchase being particularly out of the norm but I also would like to see more transparency in the bidding process as a general rule.

Could you please elaborate what you mean by "server tech STACK".

Why you think that I have googled the points I made, if I made any?

You know I remembered a conversation I had with some fellows many years back and how I closed that conversation. After some discussion I simply told them "the first step towards knowledge is realizing that someone doesn't know (many) things". They considered me someone who lacked a self-confidence in what I already knew and not on a par with their "gifted" af-cholenat".

I hope that they (those fellows) have realised by now that they lacked some basic understanding about themselves and others back then.

It would have been quicker if you just looked it up. It's shorthand that's used in development to mean toolkit. So in this case the server Operating System, database management, programming languages and associated libraries being used by the institution in question is what comprises as their tech STACK.

I said you googled your response because I asked you for a technical explanation for why my reasoning was flawed and you listed definitions of things and no actual explanation.

I'm not quite sure what you were intending to say with the rest of your post so I'll leave the aside.

[opmerc]

direct your noise elsewhere

[Ethoash]

direct your noise elsewhere

አንተና ያደደብ ዲዲቲ አስተማሪዎች ትመስሉኛላቹሁ ኮምፒተር እንዴት አርጎ ዲፕሎይድ እንደሚኖን የማታውቁ ቆቆች ማን ያውቃል ማን ያወቃል እያላቹሁ የምትፎካከሩ ይመስላል ፨ አዋ በልጅነታችን የማን እቃ ይበልጣል እያልን እንደምንፎካከር እናንተም ትፎካከራላቹሁ። አዋ እኔ ምንም አያገባኝም ግን እንደናንተ ያለ ገገማ ነው ግዜያችንን የሚያጠፋው ለስሙ ተምራቹሃል ግን ትምህርታቹሁን በተግባር አላዋላቹሁትም ። ለዚህ ነው የተነስቹሁበትን ጉዳይ ረስታቹሁ ስለ ማን ያውቃል ማን ያውቃል እያላቹሁ የምትፎካከሩት ። እናንተ ስትጃጃሉ ፭፮ ሚልዬን ዶላር ይዘረፋል

ኮምፒተር ዲፕሎይመት ምንም ቀላል ነው ። ማንም ያለተማረ ሰው ሊሰራው የሚችል ነገር ነው። ሶፍት ዌሩን የስሩት ሰዎች መመሪያ ይፁፉልሀል አንተ ብቻ ክሊክ ክሊክ እያረግህ ሶፍት ዌሩን መጫን ነው ። ከዚያም አሽጎ ወደ ሚሄድበት መላክ ነው።

ስርቨርና ኔት ወርክ መጠቅምም ትችላለህ አንድ አደራሽ ተከራይተህ ኮፒተሩን ደርድረህ የመጣውን ሶፍት ዌር መጫን ብቻ ነው። አታካብዱ።

look at this school computer deployment they loaded the school image and software and they deliver it to their school end of story ..

[DefendTheTruth]

It would have been quicker if you just looked it up. It's shorthand that's used in development to mean toolkit. So in this case the server Operating System, database management, programming languages and associated libraries being used by the institution in question is what comprises as their tech STACK.

I said you googled your response because I asked you for a technical explanation for why my reasoning was flawed and you listed definitions of things and no actual explanation.

I'm not quite sure what you were intending to say with the rest of your post so I'll leave the aside.

Let me say first that I didn't want to criticize you for your any lack of understanding of the subject matter here (subjective or objective) when I first replied to you for no one is expected to understand everything out there. Like I said before I just simply wanted to share my view that how we might have many wanna be politicians but not so much professionals when it comes to other disciplines, like the topic under this discussion.

Then you replied in tone that seemed to imply that you know. I then suggested to show what you know. Then you started writing many things that could be self-contradictory and that didn't suggest that you indeed understnad what you are writting.

You asked me to show you your flaws and I need to show you them here:

Firstly you wrote:

This typically means testing for, customizing and getting the system up and running across all machines.
(customized operating system)
making sure the incoming software can function reliably in such an environment

I hope that you were talking about an implementation that you envisaged as a deployment on a separate and different machines (decentralized), otherwise your saying about, for example, across all machines wouldn’t make any sense. Does it?

Then you tried to elaborate yourself as follows, after I tried to point out the incoherence of your thinking on the subject matter here:

The part I was talking about mainly is the end-user component. Ethiopian government end-user computers rely on a modified version of Windows that NISS built.

But I still tried to tell you the idea behind modern enterprise software and purposely wrote in my reply about something “thin-client” but I don’t think that you have taken note of that and instead claimed that I just googled.

So this incoming ERP software would have to be backwards-compatible with not only this incredibly obsolete Windows version but also be able to function alongside any of the modifications introduced. This requires the company selling the software to modify the package to fit in this very specific environment and also carry extra staff on hand that have the expertise of legacy systems. I say extra because it is difficult finding people who specialize in obsolete tech and don't base their careers on the latest and greatest.

I am lost here on what you want to say when you write about “obsolete Windows” and “modifications introduced” without saying where this modifications were introduced. Were those modifications on the client computer or on the server host?


Then you also added:

I don't know the state and makeup of the server infrastructure for these institutions but the Operating System they are powered by is also a factor. So whether it's a Windows or Linux STACK will determine whether this ERP software and any associated databases can function on it in the first place. So to answer your question on why the winning bidder wasn't some fancy western company, a likely scenario is that their offerings either were too pricey or couldn't be accommodated in our server tech STACK.

Here it seems that you were talking about if the machine (be it the client machine or the server) is a Windows or UNIX but also used the expression "server tech STACK", probably to mean the technology stack, which are not one and the same.

What ever the case could be your claim “couldn’t be accommodated” remains still beyond my imagination, but you might know better. After I tried to suggest to you that you still seem to me to have missed something in your thinking on a subject matter you don't seem to be versed in enough then you wrote again:

It would have been quicker if you just looked it up. It's shorthand that's used in development to mean toolkit. So in this case the server Operating System, database management, programming languages and associated libraries being used by the institution in question is what comprises as their tech STACK.

You reduced a technology stack to just a tool stack and still you want me to think you have a basic understanding of what you are talking here about or even someone who can share his knowledge about it with others? NO!

It doesn't simply make sense and let's get back to our politics where I think you feel more at home and comfortable. Not a fair deal?

[DefendTheTruth]

look at this school computer deployment they loaded the school image and software and they deliver it to their school end of story ..

When small babies start to dangle they too feel that they are just walking like the adults do.

This is not politics where many ethiopian review forumers feel comfortable and roll-out of a computer software with or without associated hardware is not the same as an implementing proje project of an enterprise software.

You are very simplistic and through that also funny, though! Keep it up!

[opmerc]

It's completely fair to criticize me on anything I get wrong, particularly if it's anything technical. Unlike the weyane fly buzzing in here, I'm trying to talk about the validity of the purchase and it's valuation not grandstand about how much I know.

That being said, the problem seems to me you not understanding my choice of phrasing more than my understanding of software development or deployment. So I'll try one more time to be as descriptive as possible.

Software as a standalone product can not and will not accommodate all environments off the shelf. Whether we are talking about client side or server side or the whole architecture. Yes, modern software development tries to mitigate this by not relying on a specific client device or native client side application design. And that's after building the application with a client and server component.

But you can not apply any part of this system in an environment that does not even meet a basic threshold of requirements either on the server side or the client side. Even more so if that environment carries with it specific conditions that might affect networking functions without which you can't make any database calls.

Without knowing how exactly this particular software was designed and built, it would be difficult to say one way or the other whether the end-user devices meet the minimum hardware specs or if there is an option in multi device operation. So the only thing we can assume as outsiders is that the company in question would have to evaluate this end-user environment in general (client and server OS and hardware specs) then it would have to evaluate any modifications applied to the OS and what implications it might have on running the software.

I stressed the part about Ethiopian institutions using both obsolete and proprietary OSes on their client machines to point at the scale of what needs to be evaluated in totality before deployment. After all, the discussion here is about why would this software cost this much. So if you have to take time to evaluate your end-users computers and they have a very unique environment, that tends to get worked into the final deployed product and the price required to do it.

The reason people use shorthands is so there is less need to be nitpicky about terminology. You can apply stack to mean both the overarching makeup of your entire infrastructure or a specific branch of that infrastructure like servers or even still about a single IT administrator choice of tools.

I could have gone off on a tangent about how you didn't use many terms correctly also but that is not the subject here. The subject is why does this software cost this much, for that answer I didn't get a single explanation or breakdown of why you think we overpaid only that you just feel it's too much.

But anyway hopefully I've made my reasoning as clear as possible this time.