Mereja.Forum

[Zack]

This is a very interesting topic which will be put into perspective and several historic narratives will be compared

The question is were there two seperate ethnic groups or one ethnic group which is divided into two this is the first question.

What we do know is that theee was a Tigray province created in the seventeen century at that time was there a Tigrinya province what we do know was in the 19 century there was a hamasien republic, now what is interesting is at what point and to what extend was the cause that created the two different groups. As we know it and were the Eritreans called Abyssinian’s at one point in history , another thing which needs to be pointed out is did the Eritreans help create the current borders of Eritrea ha Adwa been incooperated into Italian Eritrea. Would there be peace or harmony. This topic is purely for educational purposes so don’t use foul language and profanity dear lads.


Dr Zackovich

[tarik]

Zack aka z agame from cursed-land-tigray: We Eritreans have always been z Grand kids of Adulis, we have never had anything 2 do with ur cursed-land-tigray. Stop trying 2 compare or bring 2gether my Eritrean invented Tigrinya language with ur agaminya. We Eritreans speak Pure Eritrean tigrinya but ur agame land speak agaminya aka mixed with kswahili-agew-galla language.
We Eritreans r z ancestors of Kingdom of Adulis,We got no relations we axum. ንሕና አርትራውያን ደቂ ንግስነት ኣዱሊስ ኢና፣ምስ ኣኽሱም ዘራኽበና ነገር የለን።نحن الارترين اولاد ادوليس,لاعلافه لنا مع اخسوم!!!

[Wedi]

በትግራይ የነበሩ የግል ተሽከርካሪዎች በሙሉ ተወርሰው በህወሓት ቁጥጥር ስር እንዲሆኑ ተደረገ!! WEEY GUUD!!

Cursed lander Tigrayans የሚገኙ ሆቴሎች በሙሉ ከቢራ መሸጫ ወደ ጠላ ቤት እና ጠላ መሸጫ ተቀየሩ!!

[Halafi Mengedi]

There is no Tigraya ethnic, language cannot be ethnic and we lived in that Red Sea about 5000 years. Everything the north does on daily bases is Tigray culture, language, food, drink and daily life. BTW, the Italian colony of Somalia did not alter their language or ethnicity, they are all remain the old Somalia clans

[Zack]

Actually halafi language can be ethnic for example English people speak English German people speak German Tigrinya people speak Tigrinya Austrian people also speak German. So tigrayans are like Austrians since tigrayans are named after their province Tigray. So tigrayans are like Austrians

Dr Zackovich

[eden]

Wrong premise in the question

Just because Tigrians, or Somali, ended up in different countries, doesn't mean they became two separate or different ethnicities or tribes.

For those who believe they are different, answer these:

When was the earliest time German used to describe a people?
When was the earliest time German used to describe a language?

When was the earliest time Tigrinya used to describe people?
When was the earliest time Tigrinya used to describe a language?

[AbyssiniaLady]

This is a very interesting topic for you zack, a mentally slow Tigrayan troll, nobody else, Tigrigna speakers as whole are irrelevant to HOAs, but keep doing what you are doing.

There is no Tigraya ethnic, language cannot be ethnic and we lived in that Red Sea about 5000 years. Everything the north does on daily bases is Tigray culture, language, food, drink and daily life. BTW, the Italian colony of Somalia did not alter their language or ethnicity, they are all remain the old Somalia clans

Liar, Tigrayans have never lived on the coast, Eritrean red sea coastline belongs to Afars and Tigre.

[Somaliman]

Actually halafi language can be ethnic for example English people speak English German people speak German Tigrinya people speak Tigrinya Austrian people also speak German. So tigrayans are like Austrians since tigrayans are named after their province Tigray. So tigrayans are like Austrians

Dr Zackovich

Actually halafi language can be ethnic for example English people speak English German people speak German

FYI, English is not an ethnicity, though many English people, if not most of them, would argue that English is an ethnicity. Neither German is an ethnicity.

In addition, your analogy, in comparing Tigrayans and Austrians seems to me weird! I wonder if you could elaborate this a bit further!

[Cigar]

Stupid analogy.
It doesn’t matter what languages people speak, what kind of food they eat or what they dress. Those are facts which are found in all the neighboring countries of the world.
The pressing question is why do the funfunat agames make such an issue and try their hardest to be associated with Eritrea?
I don’t see the Arabs, the Latin Americans, the Somalis and the Kenyans who look or speak similar to their neighboring Ethiopians go as low as these filthy agames go and try to be Ethiopians.
Man, yes the resahat, chenewti, funfunat agames are inflicted with inferiority complex syndrome and it is true that they admit that we the Eritreans look down up on them.
What prove does one need when one sees them demeaning themselves to be the lowest of the low.
We the Eritreans are called the poorest and other ugly adjectives, but we will never dream to be associated with some one even if that some one is better than us.
Agames are just rats, who have no dignity, no pride and who hate their beings.
Period.

[Zack]

Somaliman good question I will try to explain yes you are right that some antraponolgist claim that English is not an ethnicity but others claim it is
English are combination of ancient Celtic and Anglo saxions who mixed There is a clear distinction between Scot’s welsh and English though they all have some or different Celtic blood. The Germans proper are an ethnicity we are not including the Dutch or other Germanic speakers but only those from deutchland Austria and Luxembourg. My comparison with Austria is simple Austria is a country which was always separate from main land Germany for alterations thousand years on and offcourse . Even though there were at some time the two were United . How ever Austria name is derived from austrich a German word which means the eastern realm . Tigray is a province well not a country but province but is named after its people but only seperate from the main Tigrinya speaking people. What the two have in common is both their land is seperate and it is named after its people or a region respectfully.

Dr Zackovich

[sebdoyeley]

How a golden race go so low, I thought you Agame were better than this. How can you call brother someone who insulted you, abused you day and night?
Where the Axum proudness? Your agame forefathers must be rolling in their graves

[Sadacha Macca]

Even though Zack is most likely tigrayan.... The history of Madri or Medri Bahri interesting indeed. I'm gonna read more into it and maybe make a thread on it.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/thinkafric ... bahri/amp/

A link I found interesting.

[lil kogne]

Either way, why bring this notion now ???? Whether it is Eritrea, Ireland, Scotland, Monaco what have you every country used to be part of one( another ) country, Every language is and was part of another language and so every ethnic is and was part of another ethnicity. So this bring us to the point where the Agamistans claiming had the Red sea coast, where the first to speak Tigrinya and so on. For argument sake, let's give the Qomalat the benefit that they were the owners of red sea ions ago, they were Tigrinya speakers during the stone age. Language, ethnicity and borders evolve and this proves these Neanderthals do not evolve, they tried to take Asab by force heck even the whole Eritrea. Now after the fact failing miserably, they are resorting to this dead on arrival notion. Agames, dirty creatures the gypsies of HOA swallow the bitter potion and go quietly in to the night for you are making your existence in HOA tougher by the minute. Keep your Agamigna to your self, whether it is bologna or something else, it is ours to keep and none of your qomalat business. Everything is water under bridge history has been written and so shall it stay !!!

[Hayal_Bahrigna]

Tigrayan were never linked with the Tigrigna people of Eritrea, Tigray were never an ethnic group either. Lets look at facts:

1) Tigrigna people of Eritrea is not the name of the Ethnic group, It's the name of the Language they speak. The correct name for their ethnic group would be " Kabassa ". Someone from the Carribean who speak English and was born in London is not Anglo Saxon English ethnically just because he speaks the language.

2) The " Kabassa " Ethnic group is made up from other multi ethnic groups, Belew/Tigre + Beja ( Mostly Hidareb ) + Afar/Saho. Over time they established a language called Tigrigna based loosely on all these ethnic group/languages over the Millenia. Tigrigna was first established in Eritrea around the 12/13th century. But it might have taken hundred of years to be fully established or take shape especially with strong influence of Arabic.

3) Tigray as a name did not exist prior to the 17th century.

4) "Tigrayans" did not speak Tigrigna before the 19th Century according to history/records and some british/european explorers into ethiopia in early 19th century, they spoke more or less amharic influenced Geez.

5) The problem with Tigrayans is an identity crisis, they spent the last 200 years to speak/act/look/feel like Eritreans but not accepted and looked down as outsiders Amharic/Oromo + rest of ethiopians left overs who were left in northern Ethiopia and trying to be Eritreans.

6) If you look at the history of Tigray before the 19th century Not one script or record or evidence for any of their " Ras " or kings spoke tigrigna or have a record they ever did.

So In summary as an ethnic group kabassa is more linked and related with the other Ethnic group In Eritrea ( beja being in Seraye and Dubarwa is actually a Beja word so is Seraye, the tens of thousands of Afars migration to the hamaesien region in the middle ages etc. )

As a language Tigrayans adopted the Tigrigna language less than 200 years ago ( and they still [deleted] at speaking it ), Your question is like saying " When did the african carribean black jamiacan split from the Anglo saxon English as an ethnic group". Language does not make an ethnic group, there are 5 criteria's to make an ethnic group and Tigrayans has 2 of them because they adopted it from the kabassa people 200 years ago.

[Somaliman]

Tigrayan were never linked with the Tigrigna people of Eritrea, Tigray were never an ethnic group either. Lets look at facts:

1) Tigrigna people of Eritrea is not the name of the Ethnic group, It's the name of the Language they speak. The correct name for their ethnic group would be " Kabassa ". Someone from the Carribean who speak English and was born in London is not Anglo Saxon English ethnically just because he speaks the language.

2) The " Kabassa " Ethnic group is made up from other multi ethnic groups, Belew/Tigre + Beja ( Mostly Hidareb ) + Afar/Saho. Over time they established a language called Tigrigna based loosely on all these ethnic group/languages over the Millenia. Tigrigna was first established in Eritrea around the 12/13th century. But it might have taken hundred of years to be fully established or take shape especially with strong influence of Arabic.

3) Tigray as a name did not exist prior to the 17th century.

4) "Tigrayans" did not speak Tigrigna before the 19th Century according to history/records and some british/european explorers into ethiopia in early 19th century, they spoke more or less amharic influenced Geez.

5) The problem with Tigrayans is an identity crisis, they spent the last 200 years to speak/act/look/feel like Eritreans but not accepted and looked down as outsiders Amharic/Oromo + rest of ethiopians left overs who were left in northern Ethiopia and trying to be Eritreans.

6) If you look at the history of Tigray before the 19th century Not one script or record or evidence for any of their " Ras " or kings spoke tigrigna or have a record they ever did.

So In summary as an ethnic group kabassa is more linked and related with the other Ethnic group In Eritrea ( beja being in Seraye and Dubarwa is actually a Beja word so is Seraye, the tens of thousands of Afars migration to the hamaesien region in the middle ages etc. )

As a language Tigrayans adopted the Tigrigna language less than 200 years ago ( and they still [deleted] at speaking it ), Your question is like saying " When did the african carribean black jamiacan split from the Anglo saxon English as an ethnic group". Language does not make an ethnic group, there are 5 criteria's to make an ethnic group and Tigrayans has 2 of them because they adopted it from the kabassa people 200 years ago.

Someone from the Carribean who speak English and was born in London is not Anglo Saxon English ethnically just because he speaks the language.

Someone of Caribbean heritage who was born in London is English, even though many white English get irritated when they hear this.

[Zack]

Hi hayal Bahrigna I think your being a bit dishonest tigrayans started speaking Tigrinya in the 19 century so in that sense u mean that the great king yohannes father did not speak Tigrinya also your comparison to Jamaican and English is absurd because Jamaicans are black slaves from west Africa and English are a mix of celts from britonia. Tigrayans and Tigrinya to my understanding have been one ethnic group how ever divided by politics borders and feudal hatret between them and competition as well but we have to note that when they did exactly started separating themselves this is very interesting to find out .

Dr Zackovich

[Hayal_Bahrigna]

Hi hayal Bahrigna I think your being a bit dishonest tigrayans started speaking Tigrinya in the 19 century so in that sense u mean that the great king yohannes father did not speak Tigrinya also your comparison to Jamaican and English is absurd because Jamaicans are black slaves from west Africa and English are a mix of celts from britonia. Tigrayans and Tigrinya to my understanding have been one ethnic group how ever divided by politics borders and feudal hatret between them and competition as well but we have to note that when they did exactly started separating themselves this is very interesting to find out .

Dr Zackovich

They were never the same ethnic Group. Tigre of eritrea and Tigrigna were the same ethnic group historically. Look at the clans and Tribes ( Qabil ) that were Tigre and became Tigrigna and Vice versa, tens if not hundreds in the last few centuries. There is no tribes in Tigray because majority if not all Came from other part of ethiopia, language is not proof of an ethnic group look at the Somali Bantu they speak somali are they Isaaq? Darood? hawiya? Tigrigna people of Eritrea have Clans same as the Tigre of Eritrea, Tigrayans do not have that because majority of their ancestory is unknown.

In Regard to King Yohannes do you have any record of him speaking Tigrigna or any writing from him in Tigrigna? No you don't.

I will actually make this a challenge for you, Give me one evidence of any Tigrigna script from Tigray from the early 19th century and i will quit this site, that is how sure i am. Tigrigna was spoken in djbouti before it was spoken in Tigray think about that for a minute.

[Meleket]

ኤርትራዉያን ደያኑ ማእከልን መስመርን ብጭብጢ ምዝራብ ኢዩ ዚብርሆም። እስከ Hayal_Bahrigna ዘቕረቦ ሞጐተ ቕኑዕ ስለምዃኑ ንምርግጋጽ ናይቲ ተጋሩ ዝንየቱሉ ታሪኸይና ሰብኣይ ናይ ነፍሲኄር መምህር ገብረኪዳን ደስታ መጸሓፍ ተወኪስና ክልተ ኣብነታት ኪኾና ዝኽእላ ግጥምታት ነቕርብ’ሞ፡ ብምንታይ ቋንቋ ከምዝተጻሕፋ ንፍረድ። እታ ሓንቲ ባዕሉ በዝብዝ ካሳ ዝገጠማ ኢያ ኢሎምና ኣለዉ። እታ ካልኣይቲ ድማ ንሸቓ ኣሉላ ዝተገጥመትሉ’ያ ቢሎምና ኣለዉ መምህር ገረችዳን።

ሃፀይ ተክለጊዮርጊስ 60ሽሕ ሰራዊት ከምዘኽትት ተኣማሚኑ ንበዝብዝ ካሳ ካብ 12ሽሕ ንላዕሊ ሰራዊት ከምዘይብሉ ገሚቱ፡ ሰራዊተይ ሓመደ ገዳም ኢዩ፣ ብዙሕ ኢዩ ኪብል ጣፍ ኣብ ለቆታ መሊኡ ምስሰደደሉ።

“ደጃች ካሳ፣ ናይ ሃፀይ ተክለጊዮርጊስ ኣቦ ሓንካስ ከምዝነበረ ስለዝፈልጥ፣
“ከቱርክ ይዋጋል እንኳን ካንካሳ
ያባ ፈንቅል ልጅ ወሬሳው ካሳ። ኢሉ ፈከረሞ ነቲ ዝተላእኸሉ ጣፍ ኣብ መቘሎ ቆልዩ እንደገና ለኣኹሉ። ከምኡ ንምግባር ዝተገደደሉ ቀንዲ ምኽንያት ድማ ሰራዊትካ ከምጣፍ እንተበዝሐ ከምዚ ገይረ እየ ብዓረር ከሕርሮ ንምባል እዩ ነይሩ። (እምቢታ ኣንፃር ወረርቲ ብመምህር ገብረኪዳን ደስታ ገጽ 118)

እስኪ ደብተራ ፍስሃ ጊዮርጊስ ድማ፣ ንደጃች ስዩም ኣባ ጐበዝ ኣመልኪቱ እንታይ ከምዝብል ንተዓዘብ። “መስቀል ብራቕ ምስኮነ ድማ፣ ደጃች ስዩም ኣባ ጐበዝ ካብ ዞብል ገስጊሱ መቐለ ኣተወ። ንሱውን፣ ከም ደጃች ደበብ ኣርኣያ፡ ክነግስ ኢየ፣ ንግርቲ ኣለኒ በሃላይ ኢዩ ዝነበረ። እንደገናውን ካብ መቐለ ገስጊሱ ናብ ዓድዋ ኸደ እሞ፣ ንራእሲ መንገሻ ሓደጋ ወደቖ። ሓደ መዓልቲ ምሉእ ትውግእ ምስወዓሉ ድማ ካህናት ዓረቑዎም። ናይ ራእሲ መንገሻ ቤተመንግስቲ ግን ካብ ምቅፃል ኣየምለጠን። ደሓር ግን ራእሲ መንገሻን ደጃች እምባየን ፀልማት ተኸዲኖም ብኣፍራስ ናብ ከተማ ኣኽሱም ሕብስ በሉ። ራእሲ ኣሉላ ሽዑ ኣደጐልቦ ኣብዝበሃል ዓዲ /ከባቢ ሰራየ/ ፀኒሑ ናብ ዓድዋ እናመፀ እንተሎ፣ ኣብ ዳዕሮ ተኽሊ ምስበፅሐ ኢዩ ብዛዕባ’ቲ ተፈጢሩ ዘሎ ፀገም ሓበሬታ ዝረኸበ። ኣሉላ ኣባ ነጋ ከመ ቅፅበት በሪሩ ኣብ ከባቢ ኣኽሱም ምስበፅሐ፣ ምስ ደጃጽ ስዩም ኣባ ጎበዝ ፀሓይ ክሳብ ዝዓርብ ትውግእ ወዓሉ። ደጃች ስዩም ኣባ ጐበዝ ግን፣ ሽዑ ለይቲ ኢዩ ፀልማት ጉልባብ ገይሩ ናብ ሓማሴን ክሃድም ተገዲዱ” እናበለ ይትርኽ። /1993,123/።
እቲ “ወንድስ ተወለደ ኣሉላ ኣባ ነጋ
ሰኞ ሰምቶ ማክሰኞ ገስግሶ ሮብዕ ተዋጋ
ፍግእ ፍግእ ኣበሎም ከም ዱባ
ሕቑን ሕቑን ኣበሎም ከም ላጋ
ወንድስ ተወለደ ኣሉላ ኣባ ነጋ
የማይ ሳሳ በዓለመ ስጋ
አልጋውን ቀምቶ ሰጠው ለባለ አልጋ። ዝብል ግጥሚውን ሽዑ ኢዩ ንአሉላ ኣባ ነጋ ተገጢሙሉ። (እምቢታ ኣንፃር ወረርቲ ብመምህር ገብረኪዳን ደስታ ገጽ 286)

እዘን መምህር ገብረኪዳን ደስታ ዝገለጽወን ግጥምታት ትግርኛ ዲየን ወላስ ኣምሓርኛ ዶስ ካልእ ሽም ዘይተረኽቦ ቋንቋ፧

Hayal_Bahrigna ስለቲ ቅኑዕ ሞጐተኻ፡ “ኣገናዕ” ቢልናካ ኣሎና ኤርትራዉያን ደያኑ ማእከልን መስመርን።

Hi hayal Bahrigna I think your being a bit dishonest tigrayans started speaking Tigrinya in the 19 century so in that sense u mean that the great king yohannes father did not speak Tigrinya also your comparison to Jamaican and English is absurd because Jamaicans are black slaves from west Africa and English are a mix of celts from britonia. Tigrayans and Tigrinya to my understanding have been one ethnic group how ever divided by politics borders and feudal hatret between them and competition as well but we have to note that when they did exactly started separating themselves this is very interesting to find out .

Dr Zackovich

They were never the same ethnic Group. Tigre of eritrea and Tigrigna were the same ethnic group historically. Look at the clans and Tribes ( Qabil ) that were Tigre and became Tigrigna and Vice versa, tens if not hundreds in the last few centuries. There is no tribes in Tigray because majority if not all Came from other part of ethiopia, language is not proof of an ethnic group look at the Somali Bantu they speak somali are they Isaaq? Darood? hawiya? Tigrigna people of Eritrea have Clans same as the Tigre of Eritrea, Tigrayans do not have that because majority of their ancestory is unknown.

In Regard to King Yohannes do you have any record of him speaking Tigrigna or any writing from him in Tigrigna? No you don't.

I will actually make this a challenge for you, Give me one evidence of any Tigrigna script from Tigray from the early 19th century and i will quit this site, that is how sure i am. Tigrigna was spoken in djbouti before it was spoken in Tigray think about that for a minute.

[Zack]

Are you saying tigrayans are not by nature Tigrinya speakers so what did they speak if they didn’t speak Tigrinya and how do people just adopt a language of a neighbouring ethnic group that makes no sense can u elaborate on that for example I am Issa somali. I have lived for centuries next to affars but I have never adopted their language so how does this work


Dr Zackovich

[Hayal_Bahrigna]

Are you saying tigrayans are not by nature Tigrinya speakers so what did they speak if they didn’t speak Tigrinya and how do people just adopt a language of a neighbouring ethnic group that makes no sense can u elaborate on that for example I am Issa somali. I have lived for centuries next to affars but I have never adopted their language so how does this work


Dr Zackovich

Tigrayans are not the same ethnic group as Tigrigna, forget about the language for a second. Imagine if you are an Issa Somali, Then you get Kikyaya or Luo from kenya mass migrating to say harar for hundred of Years and mixed with the local population, then they always speaking amharic or harari. All of a sudden they adopted Issa Somali language and for the next 200 years they start speaking issa somali but still speak very bad Somali ( Tigrayan Tigrigna sounds like pidgin to an eritrean person, its so bad we call it Dirty Tigrigna ). would you consider them Issa somali who split from the same Qabil?

When you Get your Eritrean ID Card the background check that is done can easily filter out if you are Eritrean or Tigrayan because the background check will go back to your Village/Town which is mostly linked to the clan you are from.

You see its very Easy to know how Tigrigna was created and established, it contains so many Arabic words which is different to Geez, Northern Ethiopia had no contact with the Arab world for almost 1000 Years from the 7th century till the 17th century. Yet hundred if not thousands of words is Arabic, some other word is Beja and saho/afar. The language was created by Eritrean Traders who spoke 4 or 5 languages and gradually became the main language over few hundred years. When Arab/Beja/Afar/Tigre people listen to Tigrigna they all say " Hey, i understand few words". The Afar people of Eritrea know very well how Tigrigna was created as they saw it created it in front of them over the years.