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Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 16:19
by Gesgis
"Tigray" is not a historical place. As there is no such place even 150 years ago.
It is NOT a nation, as the people of Irob, Kunama, Tigre, Tembein -Abergele have no cultural, psychological, historical and even linguistic similarity with the dominant group- the Tigre.
"Tigray"'s connection with Axum is ONLY geographical as the people of Axum were Geez speakers and no historical connection is established with the people that speak "Tigrinya".
TPLF was formed based on this confusion of a place, a people and a geography assuming it is a "nation".
Now that TPLF is defeated, all the oppressed nations of "Tigray" should be freed immediately. And this should start with the most venerable Agew people of Tembien-Abergele. Their culture, language and nationhood is almost extinct and should be revived with utmost urgency.
The future of "Tigray", if it continues as such, should therefore lie in the hands of the Cushitic people of Tembien-Abergele. They should be given a chance to lead this troubled area out of its misery.
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 16:25
by Wedi
Gesgis, very good point. Can you tell us a bit about Agame people? I read somewhere that in earlier times, there were very powerful men and governors of Tigray who come from Agame tribe.
Please also enlighten us about the history of "Proper-Tigray(Tigray-Proper)" and its meaning. Thank you in advance proper
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 16:35
by Gesgis
Good Questions:
Agame people are without any doubt mentioned on the stelae of Ezana as one of the conquered tribes. Before their conquest and even after their conquest, they were Saho people.
In other words Agames are Saho people. But over time they lost their language and became assimilated to the dominant Tegaru culture. However, they never lost their separateness even upto the 19th century when their king Sebagadis really destroyed the Tegaru and became king of all Tigrae. He did speak Saho language even then.
But their culture is so destroyed, it is difficult now to tell them apart from Tegaru proper. That is why I did not mention them as a separate nation. However, should they decide to go their own way, they should be supported.
Proper Tigrae would be Adwa, Axum and those areas close to them. These are "Tigrinya-speaking" people who appear in history books after the 10th century. They are most likely a product of the conquest of Yodit-gudit. When Yodit took over the Geez-speaking Axum city-state, her army most likely intermixed with the local population and the result was the Tegaru. This to me is the most likely way the Tegaru came about, as there is no historical evidence they existed before the 10th century.
Wedi wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 16:25
Gesgis, very good point. Can you tell us a bit about Agame people? I read somewhere that in earlier times, there were very powerful men and governors of Tigray who come from Agame tribe.
Please also enlighten us about the history of "Proper-Tigray(Tigray-Proper)" and its meaning. Thank you in advance proper
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 16:47
by Wedi
Gesgis, thank you for this wonderful info.
This is what i got about Tembien
"Tembien in Tigray
The historical “Tembien” corresponds approximately to the current lower Kolla Tembien (in strict transliteration Qolla Tembien, capital: Abiy Addi) and upper Dogu’a Tembien districts (capital: Hagere Selam).
The term Tigray in local geographical tradition usually does not mean the whole of today’s Tigray, but the highlands around the historical centre, Adwa with Aksum, up to the ancient town of Hawzien (“Tigray proper”), surrounded by the other Tigrinya-speaking territories with their own rulers, political traditions and laws, some of them repeatedly under the overlordship of Tigray (such as Shire or Tembien).
The traditional border between Tigray proper and Tembien was the Wer’i river (Photo 4.1), which is why Tembien was also called “Wer’i Mellash” (‘beyond the Wer’i’). Outsiders tended to call the entire Tigrinya-speaking region “Tigre”. Unlike several other Tigrinya-speaking provinces, Tembien was often linked with Tigray proper (Adwa), at times in a dynamic way: during rainy seasons Tembien assumed full autonomy due to the Wer’i river becoming an unpassable border, while during dry seasons it accepted the overlordship of Tigray proper."
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 16:55
by TesfaNews
Gesges Thanks do you know the history and people of Enderta are they Saho or Erob
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 16:57
by Gesgis
Tembien is the land of Agew people. They are "Tigrinya" speaking Agew people. Their history attest to it. Their culture attest to it. The only reason they are considered Tegaru is because their language was dominated out of existence by the Tegaru. Your post seems to me a compromise between the truth and the need to appease the Tegaru. Which is ok, but the historical truth indicates that these are people who are going to extinct unless something is done to protect them.
The Abergele area is without a doubt the land of Xhamat people. Xhamat is the old name of the Khimant/Kimant people. Hopefully, these too, will get proper protection from the federal government of Ethiopia, to revive their culture, history and language.
If TPLF chooses to wage guerilla war fare, all bets are off that these areas will get proper recognition from the central government. The foolishness of past eras, I think, will not be repeated.
Wedi wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 16:47
Gesgis, thank you for this wonderful info.
This is what i got about Tembien
"Tembien in Tigray
The historical “Tembien” corresponds approximately to the current lower Kolla Tembien (in strict transliteration Qolla Tembien, capital: Abiy Addi) and upper Dogu’a Tembien districts (capital: Hagere Selam).
The term Tigray in local geographical tradition usually does not mean the whole of today’s Tigray, but the highlands around the historical centre, Adwa with Aksum, up to the ancient town of Hawzien (“Tigray proper”), surrounded by the other Tigrinya-speaking territories with their own rulers, political traditions and laws, some of them repeatedly under the overlordship of Tigray (such as Shire or Tembien).
The traditional border between Tigray proper and Tembien was the Wer’i river (Photo 4.1), which is why Tembien was also called “Wer’i Mellash” (‘beyond the Wer’i’). Outsiders tended to call the entire Tigrinya-speaking region “Tigre”. Unlike several other Tigrinya-speaking provinces, Tembien was often linked with Tigray proper (Adwa), at times in a dynamic way: during rainy seasons Tembien assumed full autonomy due to the Wer’i river becoming an unpassable border, while during dry seasons it accepted the overlordship of Tigray proper."
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 17:07
by tarik
Gesgis: I agree with all assessment but i disagree with you on z agame ppl being saho, i think u r wrong on that statement. Irob r Saho agame ppl come from a word in Eritrean tigrinya it's called a bush tree called "AGAM-ዓጋም" it's a kind of dry fruit in arabic or sudan it's called *LALOB*, That dry fruit is sour. I agree with u on one thing though z agame ppl r not tigrinya, because as we speak they still don't speak proper tigrinya. Either way they r all cursed-land-tigray ppl and always crooks.
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 17:13
by Gesgis
I do not know too much about the history of Enderta. The thing that left a mark in my memory about them is that they wrote/translated the Kibra Negest.
Enderta people seem to have an affinity with the people of Angote/Bete Amhara. And the Kibra-Negest seems to have legitimized the so called -Solomonic dynasty.
But why? Why did they side with the Amharu? I do not know and I will leave the reason for it to people who are more knowledgeable than I .
TesfaNews wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 16:55
Gesges Thanks do you know the history and people of Enderta are they Saho or Erob
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 17:23
by Wedi
Gesgis , I think people of 70 Enderta are more related to Amhara than Tigre. i come to these conclusion after looking at their culture and their way of life. I will read more about the history of Enderta people.
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 17:30
by TesfaNews
You are right 70 Endertas of May Keyih Wejerat Maychew Ambalage Alaje Zoned as “South Tigray” have the same culture as Woldea Wolo Amhara Proper along with Agaw Mider Sekota
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 20:21
by Gesgis
Your version of history is more fun than my dry take on it. To be honest with you, the similarity of the name of the plant and the name of the people of Agame is a coincidence. I am saying this 1)because the Agame people are mentioned on the stelae of Ezana by name 2)there is historical evidence that they were originally Saho people. And they were so even in the 19th century. 3)The plant you mentioned is not known to grow disproportionately in areas where the Agame people lived/live.
But like I said earlier, your take on the issue is more fun and I enjoyed reading it.
tarik wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 17:07
Gesgis: I agree with all assessment but i disagree with you on z agame ppl being saho, i think u r wrong on that statement. Irob r Saho agame ppl come from a word in Eritrean tigrinya it's called a bush tree called "AGAM-ዓጋም" it's a kind of dry fruit in arabic or sudan it's called *LALOB*, That dry fruit is sour. I agree with u on one thing though z agame ppl r not tigrinya, because as we speak they still don't speak proper tigrinya. Either way they r all cursed-land-tigray ppl and always crooks.
Re: Past, Present and Future of the "Tigray" construct.
Posted: 06 Dec 2020, 23:06
by TesfaNews
Shire has been an important and historical place for Tigray since the middle age. The Name “Shire” is Unique and has (4) educated possibilities of origins
1. It stems from Kunama People (Nilotic) who inhabited modern day shire and it was named after a leader or a section among the Kunama
2. The Kunama people (Nilotic) expanding into the region and the Ethiopian Emperor Dawit II sent forces under “Ras Dagnew” who repelled the non Christian (Kunama). Ras Dagnew sent a letter to Emperor Dawit II stating “Shire’Alew” or in Amharic “I Have Won” and from that moment on it was known as “Shire”
3. The Son of the Ethiopian King “Ethiopis II”, was Medabay and he had 6 sons. One was named “Sire” or “Shire” it was he who named the area himself
4. Emperor Gebremeskel of Ethiopia in (6th century AD) confirmed about Shīre in his Chronicles.