Mereja.Forum

[TGAA]

If Dr. Tedros had done a good job at WHO at this critical time, WHO should come out and defend him, Not the Ethiopian government or any other for that matter. We know this guy very well when he was the Ethiopian foreign minister, hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians were sent back home empty-handed some killed, raped and abused by saudi Arabia hooligans. How Tedors defend Ethiopians? He closed the Ethiopian embassy in the middle of the Saudi atrocity. However, he was stupid enough to post on Ethiopian foreign minster website a photoshopped picture of him accepting Ethiopians coming from Saudi Arabia. If this doesn't show his level of incompetency none will. In his recent press statement, instead of the issue of cover-up, he has been accused of, he blabbers about being called black and [ deleted ] etc.
This is what he needs to talk about: how is that the WHO (World Health Organization)that he leads posts this kind of stupid statement on its website.


"World Health Organization (WHO)

✔@WHO

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

This is simply being a mouthpiece of China nothing more or less. An independent international organization doesn't rely on china to make this kind of irresponsible statement. a competent leader would have sent his own expertise to find out what is going on and based on the expert's assessment would have made an appropriate announcement. He was encouraging international flight to continue from and to china at the hight of the pandemic in China. To defend his incompetence because of who he is or where he is from is a none starter.

[Fed_Up]

If any sane person would think the fake doctor will remain in his GD position, you must be special case. After being part of in the killing nearly 100 thousands westerners, he must be pray harder to “abune Tsadiq meles the zenawi” to come to Albergo planet alive.

He is done!!

[opmerc]

If Dr. Tedros had done a good job at WHO at this critical time, WHO should come out and defend him, Not the Ethiopian government or any other for that matter. We know this guy very well when he was the Ethiopian foreign minister, hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians were sent back home empty-handed some killed, raped and abused by saudi Arabia hooligans. How Tedors defend Ethiopians? He closed the Ethiopian embassy in the middle of the Saudi atrocity. However, he was stupid enough to post on Ethiopian foreign minster website a photoshopped picture of him accepting Ethiopians coming from Saudi Arabia. If this doesn't show his level of incompetency none will. In his recent press statement, instead of the issue of cover-up, he has been accused of, he blabbers about being called black and [deleted] etc.
This is what he needs to talk about: how is that the WHO (World Health Organization)that he leads posts this kind of stupid statement on its website.


"World Health Organization (WHO)

✔@WHO

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

This is simply being a mouthpiece of China nothing more or less. An independent international organization doesn't rely on china to make this kind of irresponsible statement. a competent leader would have sent his own expertise to find out what is going on and based on the expert's assessment would have made an appropriate announcement. He was encouraging international flight to continue from and to china at the hight of the pandemic in China. To defend his incompetence because of who he is or where he is from is a none starter.

I'm sorry but this is just more emotional nonsense. I don't even know what the actual criticism is at this point. The WHO provided guidelines based on what was available about the virus as it became known. China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread. No one in world history had quarantined a city of 10 million before or built hospitals in weeks. What would be the logic in not applauding them for taking such measures to contain the spread? Or harping on about how they tried to cover it up at the start? What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adverserial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere? The UN itself doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country, why would a health organization make such a determination?

The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was right at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. Another problem was that asymptomatic people were not showing up as the major causes of infection early on. There is also no evidence that banning flights was stopping the spread because just sitting next to someone infected at an airport terminal or touching a handrail they grazed was enough to infect someone.

A flight ban to one country at that point would only give the false sense of comfort that effective measures were being taken while infected people had already been mingling in every airport in the world for over two months. There is no better evidence for this than US and Italy who both enacted such flight bans but internally kept everything operating as usual. And look at where they ended up. Show me a single country that banned flights from China saving itself from being overrun with infections on the strength of that action alone? You can't do it because it isn't there.

What proved effective is mass testing to understand the existing spread, stringent contact tracing protocols, physical isolation within society and individual masking to slow the spread, routine washing and improving a countrys stockpile for medical wearables and equipment. All things WHO directed countries to work on quickly. Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam among others all followed this to a tee and have their situation under control. The ones complaining about WHO are the ones that didn't do so.

The one area that WHO might have not done right is telling people not to mask up if they were also not sick but given the way people were panic buying items like toilet paper and hand sanitizers, causing a run on medical grade masks was going to cause a shortage for health professionals who get sick and health systems get strained even more. So I wouldn't fault them for that either.

All of this was enacted under his leadership. So if you're going to call someone incompetent, it helps to not be wrong about it in every concievable way. Now if you want to call him a monster for what he did at every juncture of his political life in Ethiopia, that's fine and deserved. But his judgement for that should come from Ethiopians when it's applied to him and every one of his party, not because Trump needs someone to blame for the way he's running his country into the ground.

[DefendTheTruth]

If Dr. Tedros had done a good job at WHO at this critical time, WHO should come out and defend him, Not the Ethiopian government or any other for that matter. We know this guy very well when he was the Ethiopian foreign minister, hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians were sent back home empty-handed some killed, raped and abused by saudi Arabia hooligans. How Tedors defend Ethiopians? He closed the Ethiopian embassy in the middle of the Saudi atrocity. However, he was stupid enough to post on Ethiopian foreign minster website a photoshopped picture of him accepting Ethiopians coming from Saudi Arabia. If this doesn't show his level of incompetency none will. In his recent press statement, instead of the issue of cover-up, he has been accused of, he blabbers about being called black and [deleted] etc.
This is what he needs to talk about: how is that the WHO (World Health Organization)that he leads posts this kind of stupid statement on its website.


"World Health Organization (WHO)

✔@WHO

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

This is simply being a mouthpiece of China nothing more or less. An independent international organization doesn't rely on china to make this kind of irresponsible statement. a competent leader would have sent his own expertise to find out what is going on and based on the expert's assessment would have made an appropriate announcement. He was encouraging international flight to continue from and to china at the hight of the pandemic in China. To defend his incompetence because of who he is or where he is from is a none starter.

The part I highlighted above alone says that WHO made its task professionally. They referred to the source and gave the information further for others to consume, based on their own assessment. Why should someone be incompetent for that let alone be removed from office due to that?

Asking for accountability is good, but that should be based on facts. Scapegoating someone else for one's own failure is not known as competence, in my view.

[Sam Ebalalehu]

Opmerc, a persuasive, objective argument that you made. I am impressed.

[TGAA]

I'm sorry but this is just more emotional nonsense. I don't even know what the actual criticism is at this point. The WHO provided guidelines based on what was available about the virus as it became known. China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread. No one in world history had quarantined a city of 10 million before or built hospitals in weeks. What would be the logic in not applauding them for taking such measures to contain the spread? Or harping on about how they tried to cover it up at the start? What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adverserial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere? The UN itself doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country, why would a health organization make such a determination?

The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was right at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. Another problem was that asymptomatic people were not showing up as the major causes of infection early on. There is also no evidence that banning flights was stopping the spread because just sitting next to someone infected at an airport terminal or touching a handrail they grazed was enough to infect someone.

A flight ban to one country at that point would only give the false sense of comfort that effective measures were being taken while infected people had already been mingling in every airport in the world for over two months. There is no better evidence for this than US and Italy who both enacted such flight bans but internally kept everything operating as usual. And look at where they ended up. Show me a single country that banned flights from China saving itself from being overrun with infections on the strength of that action alone? You can't do it because it isn't there.

What proved effective is mass testing to understand the existing spread, stringent contact tracing protocols, physical isolation within society and individual masking to slow the spread, routine washing and improving a countrys stockpile for medical wearables and equipment. All things WHO directed countries to work on quickly. Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam among others all followed this to a tee and have their situation under control. The ones complaining about WHO are the ones that didn't do so.

The one area that WHO might have not done right is telling people not to mask up if they were also not sick but given the way people were panic buying items like toilet paper and hand sanitizers, causing a run on medical grade masks was going to cause a shortage for health professionals who get sick and health systems get strained even more. So I wouldn't fault them for that either.

All of this was enacted under his leadership. So if you're going to call someone incompetent, it helps to not be wrong about it in every concievable way. Now if you want to call him a monster for what he did at every juncture of his political life in Ethiopia, that's fine and deserved. But his judgement for that should come from Ethiopians when it's applied to him and every one of his party, not because Trump needs someone to blame for the way he's running his country into the ground.
[/quote]
You are presenting a jumbled up arguments that one needs to put apart before one deals with the real problem.
1. WHO is not established just to provide guidelines based on information provided by third parties. It has resources-both financial and expertise to go in the areas affected by epidemic or pandemic to assess and recommend guidelines. WHO has done it before in many parts of the world. I don’t know why china will be an exception to the rule?
2. “China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread.” Good for them! The question is why WHO guideline didn’t reflect the same kind of resoluteness to contain it there. There is a country that took the same draconian measures and protected its citizens effectively. New Zealand.

3. “What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adversarial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere?” Here we see politics driving the health issue. Who said WHO needs to take adversarial “tone” against anyone? What WHO as an international Organization -with the global epidemic in mind -needs to verify is whether Chain statement is supported with facts on the ground or not, if it is, make it available to rest of world, if the verification leads to a different conclusion, WHO has to present evidence why their scientific finding differs from china and present a guideline in line with its findings. If china takes a political stance contrary to the scientific findings, which it cannot disprove, then hell with that.
4. Not interested in Taiwan Vs main land China politics, but the people of Taiwan has right to be provided adequate information about the pandemic as any other. WHO should not fail them on that, whether China like it or not.
5. The most bizarre statement of yours is “The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. 1. Unless you are saying the Coronavirus was mutated to something else within a couple of weeks in china or you are saying it was contained in a laboratory at the time of the finding, it is a blatant untruth. When china announced about coronavirus 19 to the world, it also gave out its genome coding as well. There were a lot of people who were being affected by the epidemic. You don’t call it an epidemic if there is no human to human transmission. You also repeating again again in the face of worldwide evidence to the contrary banning flights as a futile attempt to control coronavirus. It is like comparing heading into eye of the storm as the same as a passing of storm in your neighborhoods. Those countries you put forth as showcase have instituted very strict regulation both within and without to contain the virus. No willy-nilly policies will do when one attempts to contain pandemics.
Regarding China : objecting china’s handling of coronavirus is not condemning China’s all policies. But its communist culture of secrecy has disarmed other countries not to take aggressive and decisive action in time. If Africa is not speared by divine power, it will be devastated beyond recognition at the other end of this pandemic. Only early protection could have saved it, an aggressive one at that. We will see how it is going to unfold in couple of months. What we have witnessed in the first and second world is not encouraging at all. Personally, I am very concerned.
As to Dr.Tedros I would have like to see him succeed regardless of his past, but as saying goes old habits die hard. He should have kept himself as an independent authority leading this international Organization, an organization trusted by the international community. Fingering the wind and schmoozing with and adapting chain’s talking point is not a sign of an independent-minded and scientifically grounded man of science.

[opmerc]

Opmerc, a persuasive, objective argument that you made. I am impressed.

Thank you. It's unreal we even have to be debating questions of leadership or crisis management coming from someone who made this statement as late as March.



To top it off this lunatic is threatening to cut funds to a health organization in the middle of global pandemic then wants to talk about who is endangering lives.

[opmerc]

You are presenting a jumbled up arguments that one needs to put apart before one deals with the real problem.
1. WHO is not established just to provide guidelines based on information provided by third parties. It has resources-both financial and expertise to go in the areas affected by epidemic or pandemic to assess and recommend guidelines. WHO has done it before in many parts of the world. I don’t know why china will be an exception to the rule?
2. “China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread.” Good for them! The question is why WHO guideline didn’t reflect the same kind of resoluteness to contain it there. There is a country that took the same draconian measures and protected its citizens effectively. New Zealand.

3. “What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adversarial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere?” Here we see politics driving the health issue. Who said WHO needs to take adversarial “tone” against anyone? What WHO as an international Organization -with the global epidemic in mind -needs to verify is whether Chain statement is supported with facts on the ground or not, if it is, make it available to rest of world, if the verification leads to a different conclusion, WHO has to present evidence why their scientific finding differs from china and present a guideline in line with its findings. If china takes a political stance contrary to the scientific findings, which it cannot disprove, then hell with that.
4. Not interested in Taiwan Vs main land China politics, but the people of Taiwan has right to be provided adequate information about the pandemic as any other. WHO should not fail them on that, whether China like it or not.
5. The most bizarre statement of yours is “The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. 1. Unless you are saying the Coronavirus was mutated to something else within a couple of weeks in china or you are saying it was contained in a laboratory at the time of the finding, it is a blatant untruth. When china announced about coronavirus 19 to the world, it also gave out its genome coding as well. There were a lot of people who were being affected by the epidemic. You don’t call it an epidemic if there is no human to human transmission. You also repeating again again in the face of worldwide evidence to the contrary banning flights as a futile attempt to control coronavirus. It is like comparing heading into eye of the storm as the same as a passing of storm in your neighborhoods. Those countries you put forth as showcase have instituted very strict regulation both within and without to contain the virus. No willy-nilly policies will do when one attempts to contain pandemics.
Regarding China : objecting china’s handling of coronavirus is not condemning China’s all policies. But its communist culture of secrecy has disarmed other countries not to take aggressive and decisive action in time. If Africa is not speared by divine power, it will be devastated beyond recognition at the other end of this pandemic. Only early protection could have saved it, an aggressive one at that. We will see how it is going to unfold in couple of months. What we have witnessed in the first and second world is not encouraging at all. Personally, I am very concerned.
As to Dr.Tedros I would have like to see him succeed regardless of his past, but as saying goes old habits die hard. He should have kept himself as an independent authority leading this international Organization, an organization trusted by the international community. Fingering the wind and schmoozing with and adapting chain’s talking point is not a sign of an independent-minded and scientifically grounded man of science.

1. It can't deploy any resources into any area affected and do any assessment or studies without the consent and cooperation of the authorities in charge of that area. I don't know why you think China is an exception here.

2. I don't know what you are intending to say here. How can WHO contain a virus in one city or one country when this virus has already spread undetected for several months beyond that city and country? What do you expect flight restrictions on that country to yield after it has spread to all corners of the globe?

3. You are suggesting they take that tone. WHO won't ignore the conclusions of Chinese health officials and their preliminary findings on the virus when it has no scientific proof of its own to discount those findings. It can't obtain such findings if it can't get on the ground to do its own self assessment. Read back to 1. on why cooperation with China is necessary to make this happen.

4. WHO would do coordination with countries and intergovernmental institutions but its guidelines and briefings are available for all so Taiwan as a territory is not being deprived of anything on that front. Anything else is asking WHO to get in the middle of political and territorial disputes and start treating one entity as a sovereign country.

5. Please point me to any peer reviewed study that existed at the time of that publication that refuted that statement. Otherwise don't say something is untrue. As far as declarations on when it was declared an epidemic or a pandemic have no bearing on that statement because those positions are established once the rate of spread reaches certain levels not when a virus is first discovered or announced.

6. I asked you to give me proof that flight bans were effective at containing the spread not just blindly say there is evidence out there. Of the countries I listed, the only consistent strategy employed among them is isolation, tracing and treatment policies. South Korea for example didn't have full flight bans to China only reduced flights from certain carriers and certain cities and yet it is doing fine. Spain on the other hand had full flight ban to all of mainland China as early as February and they are currently sitting at number 2 at world rate of infections. Same thing with France. On the flipside Canada also scaled its flights to China with no complete ban and yet its rate of infection is nowhere near its southern counterpart because it was far better prepared. We can do this all day but the real evidence speaks for itself.

[DefendTheTruth]

I'm sorry but this is just more emotional nonsense. I don't even know what the actual criticism is at this point. The WHO provided guidelines based on what was available about the virus as it became known. China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread. No one in world history had quarantined a city of 10 million before or built hospitals in weeks. What would be the logic in not applauding them for taking such measures to contain the spread? Or harping on about how they tried to cover it up at the start? What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adverserial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere? The UN itself doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country, why would a health organization make such a determination?

The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was right at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. Another problem was that asymptomatic people were not showing up as the major causes of infection early on. There is also no evidence that banning flights was stopping the spread because just sitting next to someone infected at an airport terminal or touching a handrail they grazed was enough to infect someone.

A flight ban to one country at that point would only give the false sense of comfort that effective measures were being taken while infected people had already been mingling in every airport in the world for over two months. There is no better evidence for this than US and Italy who both enacted such flight bans but internally kept everything operating as usual. And look at where they ended up. Show me a single country that banned flights from China saving itself from being overrun with infections on the strength of that action alone? You can't do it because it isn't there.

What proved effective is mass testing to understand the existing spread, stringent contact tracing protocols, physical isolation within society and individual masking to slow the spread, routine washing and improving a countrys stockpile for medical wearables and equipment. All things WHO directed countries to work on quickly. Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam among others all followed this to a tee and have their situation under control. The ones complaining about WHO are the ones that didn't do so.

The one area that WHO might have not done right is telling people not to mask up if they were also not sick but given the way people were panic buying items like toilet paper and hand sanitizers, causing a run on medical grade masks was going to cause a shortage for health professionals who get sick and health systems get strained even more. So I wouldn't fault them for that either.

All of this was enacted under his leadership. So if you're going to call someone incompetent, it helps to not be wrong about it in every concievable way. Now if you want to call him a monster for what he did at every juncture of his political life in Ethiopia, that's fine and deserved. But his judgement for that should come from Ethiopians when it's applied to him and every one of his party, not because Trump needs someone to blame for the way he's running his country into the ground.

You are presenting a jumbled up arguments that one needs to put apart before one deals with the real problem.
1. WHO is not established just to provide guidelines based on information provided by third parties. It has resources-both financial and expertise to go in the areas affected by epidemic or pandemic to assess and recommend guidelines. WHO has done it before in many parts of the world. I don’t know why china will be an exception to the rule?
2. “China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread.” Good for them! The question is why WHO guideline didn’t reflect the same kind of resoluteness to contain it there. There is a country that took the same draconian measures and protected its citizens effectively. New Zealand.

3. “What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adversarial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere?” Here we see politics driving the health issue. Who said WHO needs to take adversarial “tone” against anyone? What WHO as an international Organization -with the global epidemic in mind -needs to verify is whether Chain statement is supported with facts on the ground or not, if it is, make it available to rest of world, if the verification leads to a different conclusion, WHO has to present evidence why their scientific finding differs from china and present a guideline in line with its findings. If china takes a political stance contrary to the scientific findings, which it cannot disprove, then hell with that.
4. Not interested in Taiwan Vs main land China politics, but the people of Taiwan has right to be provided adequate information about the pandemic as any other. WHO should not fail them on that, whether China like it or not.
5. The most bizarre statement of yours is “The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. 1. Unless you are saying the Coronavirus was mutated to something else within a couple of weeks in china or you are saying it was contained in a laboratory at the time of the finding, it is a blatant untruth. When china announced about coronavirus 19 to the world, it also gave out its genome coding as well. There were a lot of people who were being affected by the epidemic. You don’t call it an epidemic if there is no human to human transmission. You also repeating again again in the face of worldwide evidence to the contrary banning flights as a futile attempt to control coronavirus. It is like comparing heading into eye of the storm as the same as a passing of storm in your neighborhoods. Those countries you put forth as showcase have instituted very strict regulation both within and without to contain the virus. No willy-nilly policies will do when one attempts to contain pandemics.
Regarding China : objecting china’s handling of coronavirus is not condemning China’s all policies. But its communist culture of secrecy has disarmed other countries not to take aggressive and decisive action in time. If Africa is not speared by divine power, it will be devastated beyond recognition at the other end of this pandemic. Only early protection could have saved it, an aggressive one at that. We will see how it is going to unfold in couple of months. What we have witnessed in the first and second world is not encouraging at all. Personally, I am very concerned.
As to Dr.Tedros I would have like to see him succeed regardless of his past, but as saying goes old habits die hard. He should have kept himself as an independent authority leading this international Organization, an organization trusted by the international community. Fingering the wind and schmoozing with and adapting chain’s talking point is not a sign of an independent-minded and scientifically grounded man of science.

Man, don't you know how to quote someone? I started to read your response but couldn't say which is your part and which is the quote.

[TGAA]

If Dr. Tedros had done a good job at WHO at this critical time, WHO should come out and defend him, Not the Ethiopian government or any other for that matter. We know this guy very well when he was the Ethiopian foreign minister, hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians were sent back home empty-handed some killed, raped and abused by saudi Arabia hooligans. How Tedors defend Ethiopians? He closed the Ethiopian embassy in the middle of the Saudi atrocity. However, he was stupid enough to post on Ethiopian foreign minster website a photoshopped picture of him accepting Ethiopians coming from Saudi Arabia. If this doesn't show his level of incompetency none will. In his recent press statement, instead of the issue of cover-up, he has been accused of, he blabbers about being called black and [deleted] etc.
This is what he needs to talk about: how is that the WHO (World Health Organization)that he leads posts this kind of stupid statement on its website.


"World Health Organization (WHO)

✔@WHO

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

This is simply being a mouthpiece of China nothing more or less. An independent international organization doesn't rely on china to make this kind of irresponsible statement. a competent leader would have sent his own expertise to find out what is going on and based on the expert's assessment would have made an appropriate announcement. He was encouraging international flight to continue from and to china at the hight of the pandemic in China. To defend his incompetence because of who he is or where he is from is a none starter.

I'm sorry but this is just more emotional nonsense. I don't even know what the actual criticism is at this point. The WHO provided guidelines based on what was available about the virus as it became known. China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread. No one in world history had quarantined a city of 10 million before or built hospitals in weeks. What would be the logic in not applauding them for taking such measures to contain the spread? Or harping on about how they tried to cover it up at the start? What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adverserial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere? The UN itself doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country, why would a health organization make such a determination?

The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was right at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. Another problem was that asymptomatic people were not showing up as the major causes of infection early on. There is also no evidence that banning flights was stopping the spread because just sitting next to someone infected at an airport terminal or touching a handrail they grazed was enough to infect someone.

A flight ban to one country at that point would only give the false sense of comfort that effective measures were being taken while infected people had already been mingling in every airport in the world for over two months. There is no better evidence for this than US and Italy who both enacted such flight bans but internally kept everything operating as usual. And look at where they ended up. Show me a single country that banned flights from China saving itself from being overrun with infections on the strength of that action alone? You can't do it because it isn't there.

What proved effective is mass testing to understand the existing spread, stringent contact tracing protocols, physical isolation within society and individual masking to slow the spread, routine washing and improving a countrys stockpile for medical wearables and equipment. All things WHO directed countries to work on quickly. Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam among others all followed this to a tee and have their situation under control. The ones complaining about WHO are the ones that didn't do so.

The one area that WHO might have not done right is telling people not to mask up if they were also not sick but given the way people were panic buying items like toilet paper and hand sanitizers, causing a run on medical grade masks was going to cause a shortage for health professionals who get sick and health systems get strained even more. So I wouldn't fault them for that either.

All of this was enacted under his leadership. So if you're going to call someone incompetent, it helps to not be wrong about it in every concievable way. Now if you want to call him a monster for what he did at every juncture of his political life in Ethiopia, that's fine and deserved. But his judgement for that should come from Ethiopians when it's applied to him and every one of his party, not because Trump needs someone to blame for the way he's running his country into the ground.

You (opmerc) are presenting a jumbled up arguments that one needs to put apart before one deals with the real problem.
1. WHO is not established just to provide guidelines based on information provided by third parties. It has resources-both financial and expertise to go in the areas affected by epidemic or pandemic to assess and recommend guidelines. WHO has done it before in many parts of the world. I don’t know why china will be an exception to the rule?
2. “China enacted measures that were considered over the top early on and is the reason they contained their spread.” Good for them! The question is why WHO guideline didn’t reflect the same kind of resoluteness to contain it there. There is a country that took the same draconian measures and protected its citizens effectively. New Zealand.

3. “What would WHO or any health body gain by taking an adversarial tone with China when it needs China's cooperation for applying lessons elsewhere?” Here we see politics driving the health issue. Who said WHO needs to take adversarial “tone” against anyone? What WHO as an international Organization -with the global epidemic in mind -needs to verify is whether Chain statement is supported with facts on the ground or not, if it is, make it available to rest of world, if the verification leads to a different conclusion, WHO has to present evidence why their scientific finding differs from china and present a guideline in line with its findings. If china takes a political stance contrary to the scientific findings, which it cannot disprove, then hell with that.
4. Not interested in Taiwan Vs main land China politics, but the people of Taiwan has right to be provided adequate information about the pandemic as any other. WHO should not fail them on that, whether China like it or not.
5. The most bizarre statement of yours is “The claim about the lack of human to human transmission was at the time because there was no scientific evidence that showed otherwise. 1. Unless you are saying the Coronavirus was mutated to something else within a couple of weeks in china or you are saying it was contained in a laboratory at the time of the finding, it is a blatant untruth. When china announced about coronavirus 19 to the world, it also gave out its genome coding as well. There were a lot of people who were being affected by the epidemic. You don’t call it an epidemic if there is no human to human transmission. You also repeating again again in the face of worldwide evidence to the contrary banning flights as a futile attempt to control coronavirus. It is like comparing heading into eye of the storm as the same as a passing of storm in your neighborhoods. Those countries you put forth as showcase have instituted very strict regulation both within and without to contain the virus. No willy-nilly policies will do when one attempts to contain pandemics.
Regarding China : objecting china’s handling of coronavirus is not condemning China’s all policies. But its communist culture of secrecy has disarmed other countries not to take aggressive and decisive action in time. If Africa is not speared by divine power, it will be devastated beyond recognition at the other end of this pandemic. Only early protection could have saved it, an aggressive one at that. We will see how it is going to unfold in couple of months. What we have witnessed in the first and second world is not encouraging at all. Personally, I am very concerned.
As to Dr.Tedros I would have like to see him succeed regardless of his past, but as saying goes old habits die hard. He should have kept himself as an independent authority leading this international Organization, an organization trusted by the international community. Fingering the wind and schmoozing with and adapting chain’s talking point is not a sign of an independent-minded and scientifically grounded man of science.

My bad, Defend the Truth. I hope this helps.

[Sam Ebalalehu]

On the contrary, the American conservatives seemed to have been “ the epitome of incompetence” when it comes to the issue of coronavirus. Science is under attack in US led by the president of America. Every single day Americans are being fed falsehood about the virus by a few political leaders and a particular news network.
It is important to remember in the meantime the world many organizations, including WHO, are under attack after the Trump administration came to power. The American conservatives paranoia about the “single world order” had been championed by Trump wholeheartedly. Teodros as a result is unlucky to be the president of WHO at the time that Trump is the president of USA.
Yes, Tedros had been the epitome of incompetence in his participation of Ethiopian politics, but not in his leading WHO. He should indeed not be a scapegoat to the incompetence US conservatives political leadership.

[Naga Tuma]

ወገን/ወገነ

I hope my jumping in here is not going to make this important discussion worse. I have criticized people jumping into discussions for the right reasons and ending up making it worse. So, it is not my intention to be doing the same.

I happen to think that if this discussion is structured into the following three parts, it might be more fruitful: Outbreak, managing the outbreak, and informing the public about the outbreak.

I don't know yet who is responsible for the outbreak. I don't know if anyone knows about it conclusively, either. However, we know that the outbreak can be evasive for days and for some people, it becomes fatal in a very short period of time. It doesn't give you the luxury of time for waiting for scientific analysis about how to manage it or inform the global public in order to minimize causalities.

About every country in the world is managing the outbreak one way or another. I think that there is already enough data out there to see the results of which country has been doing better in managing the outbreak in terms of protecting its citizens from all sorts of its adverse effects on them, including loss of lives. When so many lives, including so many health professionals, are on the line, talking about a political tone over the toll of the outbreak on so many lives muddies the good intents in this case and makes the reasoning worse.

I have yet to clearly understand the authority and responsibility of the WHO as an independent international institution when it comes to outbreaks like this one. My initial thinking about it is that it is responsive to, if not responsible for, informing the global public about such outbreaks. When it is responsive to this kind of outbreak, it ought to have its own independent protocol about how to be responsive objectively and responsibly. If it doesn't, perhaps, Dr. Tedros can pioneer to have it put in place.

The term preliminary can fall in the protocol of informing the public. Whether an independent institution is supposed to vet or pass on information it receives from another party can fall within that protocol. In this case, whether the information that was passed on to the global public was before or after assessing the raw information received from another party is not clear to me. So, the assertion that it was passed on after an independent assessment can be either true or false. If false, the assertion only makes the descriptive word preliminary worse. I think that preliminary is just fine as is if it is in WHO's protocol about informing the global public.

To go to the extent of calling for Dr. Tedros' resignation because of this outbreak should be confined to what he did or failed to do during the outbreak and in comparison to what others in a position of authority and responsibility have done and failed to do. To the extent that the WHO appointed him legitimately, questioning his legitimacy is putting the legitimacy of the WHO into question. We all can have our domestic political point of views and consideration of the legitimacy of such a global institution at the same time. If one did not question his legitimacy before the outbreak, it makes no sense to question his legitimacy before the outbreak because of the outbreak. As WHO's leader, and I heard this by chance in the media, he has pioneered the exercise of testing to put this pandemic under control. In comparison, Donald Trump's response about testing has been wobbly. So, objectively speaking, if there is a call for Dr. Tedros' resignation in the middle of this pandemic, there should be a call for a second impeachment of Donald Trump because of his failures in managing the pandemic in the U.S.

That said, I think that the best leaders refrain from expressions like "to hell with" and "I don't give a damn" even when it is so personal.

[TGAA]

ወገን/ወገነ

I hope my jumping in here is not going to make this important discussion worse. I have criticized people jumping into discussions for the right reasons and ending up making it worse. So, it is not my intention to be doing the same.

I happen to think that if this discussion is structured into the following three parts, it might be more fruitful: Outbreak, managing the outbreak, and informing the public about the outbreak.

I don't know yet who is responsible for the outbreak. I don't know if anyone knows about it conclusively, either. However, we know that the outbreak can be evasive for days and for some people, it becomes fatal in a very short period of time. It doesn't give you the luxury of time for waiting for scientific analysis about how to manage it or inform the global public in order to minimize causalities.

About every country in the world is managing the outbreak one way or another. I think that there is already enough data out there to see the results of which country has been doing better in managing the outbreak in terms of protecting its citizens from all sorts of its adverse effects on them, including loss of lives. When so many lives, including so many health professionals, are on the line, talking about a political tone over the toll of the outbreak on so many lives muddies the good intents in this case and makes the reasoning worse.

I have yet to clearly understand the authority and responsibility of the WHO as an independent international institution when it comes to outbreaks like this one. My initial thinking about it is that it is responsive to, if not responsible for, informing the global public about such outbreaks. When it is responsive to this kind of outbreak, it ought to have its own independent protocol about how to be responsive objectively and responsibly. If it doesn't, perhaps, Dr. Tedros can pioneer to have it put in place.

The term preliminary can fall in the protocol of informing the public. Whether an independent institution is supposed to vet or pass on information it receives from another party can fall within that protocol. In this case, whether the information that was passed on to the global public was before or after assessing the raw information received from another party is not clear to me. So, the assertion that it was passed on after an independent assessment can be either true or false. If false, the assertion only makes the descriptive word preliminary worse. I think that preliminary is just fine as is if it is in WHO's protocol about informing the global public.

To go to the extent of calling for Dr. Tedros' resignation because of this outbreak should be confined to what he did or failed to do during the outbreak and in comparison to what others in a position of authority and responsibility have done and failed to do. To the extent that the WHO appointed him legitimately, questioning his legitimacy is putting the legitimacy of the WHO into question. We all can have our domestic political point of views and consideration of the legitimacy of such a global institution at the same time. If one did not question his legitimacy before the outbreak, it makes no sense to question his legitimacy before the outbreak because of the outbreak. As WHO's leader, and I heard this by chance in the media, he has pioneered the exercise of testing to put this pandemic under control. In comparison, Donald Trump's response about testing has been wobbly. So, objectively speaking, if there is a call for Dr. Tedros' resignation in the middle of this pandemic, there should be a call for a second impeachment of Donald Trump because of his failures in managing the pandemic in the U.S.

That said, I think that the best leaders refrain from expressions like "to hell with" and "I don't give a damn" even when it is so personal."
[/End of quote

If one sees this pandemic only from two angles, mean USA's and chain's) one can easly miss the tree for a forest. The blame for the devastating effect of the coronavirus in the USA falls at the feet of Trumps' administration. There is no ifs or buts about it. When is it Trump started to have regard for the international Organization? His attempt to scapegoat WHO is the typical diversional tactic he deploys when cornered.
Having put that aside, If anyone is responsible for this deadly virus and its world widespread it is the secretive communist china government.
https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-earl ... 5faab.html
No doubt China has the first-rate laboratory to detect and Identify and know the nature of this deadly virus but kept it under wrap till it became out of control. As the timeline shows above the speed the coronavirus spread outmatched the rate of the government response in regards to its announcement to the public and the international communities. Passing a propaganda communique as information to an international organization is part of the political calculus.
"World Health Organization (WHO)

✔@WHO

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

Anyone who has an inkling about the engrained secretive nature of the communist countries needs to look back on how communist countries act when they are faced with natural or human catastrophe ranging from Chrnyoble soviet union to 2003 Sars cover-up in china. Yet, most of these tragedies in those countries remained localized so the impact is minimized for others to grasp the potential danger of this secretiveness.
So when the secretive nature of the communist system combined with the unique nature of the Cornavirous 19, as turned out, has been deadly.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... s-surfaces
All things being equal, hitherto affected developed countries, though at great cost, can withstand this pandemic. We know all men are created equal but not all countries. The countries that going to be affected the most with the tragedy of biblical proportions are the poor countries, mostly African. That is why Dr. Twedro's dereliction of duty and becoming china's cheerleader is so obnoxious. These are what he could have done:
He could have avoided parroting China's governments taking points.
He should have encouraged poor countries to limit their contacts.
He should have campaigned to collect medical aid for poor countries. If Abiy can do it, Dr. Twedros was in a better position to do it.
What is he doing instead? His makes his twitter account looks like a teenage congratulation post-board, copying and pasting nonsense self-congratulation. His don't give a dame statements and His unforced err lecturing to the world about "body bags" pretty much sealed his end at WHO.

[opmerc]

If one sees this pandemic only from two angles, mean USA's and chain's) one can easly miss the tree for a forest. The blame for the devastating effect of the coronavirus in the USA falls at the feet of Trumps' administration. There is no ifs or buts about it. When is it Trump started to have regard for the international Organization? His attempt to scapegoat WHO is the typical diversional tactic he deploys when cornered.
Having put that aside, If anyone is responsible for this deadly virus and its world widespread it is the secretive communist china government.
https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-earl ... 5faab.html
No doubt China has the first-rate laboratory to detect and Identify and know the nature of this deadly virus but kept it under wrap till it became out of control. As the timeline shows above the speed the coronavirus spread outmatched the rate of the government response in regards to its announcement to the public and the international communities. Passing a propaganda communique as information to an international organization is part of the political calculus.
"World Health Organization (WHO)

✔@WHO

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

Anyone who has an inkling about the engrained secretive nature of the communist countries needs to look back on how communist countries act when they are faced with natural or human catastrophe ranging from Chrnyoble soviet union to 2003 Sars cover-up in china. Yet, most of these tragedies in those countries remained localized so the impact is minimized for others to grasp the potential danger of this secretiveness.
So when the secretive nature of the communist system combined with the unique nature of the Cornavirous 19, as turned out, has been deadly.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... s-surfaces
All things being equal, hitherto affected developed countries, though at great cost, can withstand this pandemic. We know all men are created equal but not all countries. The countries that going to be affected the most with the tragedy of biblical proportions are the poor countries, mostly African. That is why Dr. Twedro's dereliction of duty and becoming china's cheerleader is so obnoxious. These are what he could have done:
He could have avoided parroting China's governments taking points.
He should have encouraged poor countries to limit their contacts.
He should have campaigned to collect medical aid for poor countries. If Abiy can do it, Dr. Twedros was in a better position to do it.
What is he doing instead? His makes his twitter account looks like a teenage congratulation post-board, copying and pasting nonsense self-congratulation. His don't give a dame statements and His unforced err lecturing to the world about "body bags" pretty much sealed his end at WHO.

It's exhausting keeping up with all these wild assertions. Honestly. Even more so when you keep ignoring easily available evidence in favor of these emotional outbursts.

What "first-rate laboratory" detects a new virus and within a matter of days unlocks it's makeup, transmissibility along with treatment strategies? Not to mention this grand.. "Chernobyl" level cover-up and subsequent reporting of the virus to WHO all happened within ONE day... do you realize that? It's in the same link you just posted.

And what even makes that communique propaganda? Multiple people can be infected with a virus without necessarily contracting it from one another. It's possible the early cases they were seeing came from ingesting something contaminated or through a middle host or some unknown vector. That Twitter statement gives you the full extent of what was known about the virus including the source. There is no attempt to obfuscate where it came from or its preliminary nature. A week later that same source discloses the rest of those findings and efforts were ramped up accordingly.

What more did you want? A time machine to go back and tell us a week before it was in fact possible to spread by humans?

If a Twitter page is all you're relying on to understand the duty and actions of the DG of WHO, then you have no business labeling any of it a dereliction. I mean where is the worlds responsibility for you in not preparing itself quickly enough and not taking any of it seriously when told repeatedly to do so by WHO?

Boris Johnson was saying he was happily shaking hands of infected people as some sort of bravado that there was nothing to worry about. The same one that's now in intensive care taking up the space and resources of someone he helped infect with such absurdity. Where is your evaluation of his job performance?

But no, let's focus on the fact that Dr Tedros said he doesn't give a damn about racist insults..

[TGAA]

opmerc , Your stance in support of China and now in support of Dr. Twedors is so entrenched, you wouldn’t be able to see facts had they made a grand parade in front of you. You exonerated both while blaming all others for this pandemic. Without exhausting you any further, let us agree to disagree and drop it. Thanks

[Degnet]

If Dr. Tedros had done a good job at WHO at this critical time, WHO should come out and defend him, Not the Ethiopian government or any other for that matter. We know this guy very well when he was the Ethiopian foreign minister, hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians were sent back home empty-handed some killed, raped and abused by saudi Arabia hooligans. How Tedors defend Ethiopians? He closed the Ethiopian embassy in the middle of the Saudi atrocity. However, he was stupid enough to post on Ethiopian foreign minster website a photoshopped picture of him accepting Ethiopians coming from Saudi Arabia. If this doesn't show his level of incompetency none will. In his recent press statement, instead of the issue of cover-up, he has been accused of, he blabbers about being called black and [deleted] etc.
This is what he needs to talk about: how is that the WHO (World Health Organization)that he leads posts this kind of stupid statement on its website.


"World Health Organization (WHO)

✔@WHO

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

This is simply being a mouthpiece of China nothing more or less. An independent international organization doesn't rely on china to make this kind of irresponsible statement. a competent leader would have sent his own expertise to find out what is going on and based on the expert's assessment would have made an appropriate announcement. He was encouraging international flight to continue from and to china at the hight of the pandemic in China. To defend his incompetence because of who he is or where he is from is a none starter.

Aye ahya enawkachuhalen,ante asafari neh,there are hundreds of banda like you

[TGAA]

My poor brother Degnet, Your heart seems to be bleeding for Dr.Twodros, I guess that is why you call me banda. if there is any country in which Twodrose could be anything but a banda let me know. Have you even consider reading this rotten weyane life history or his rotten deeds; again you are not interested in that; or is it just one of those blood is thicker than water thing? You seem to have a moral campus more than others so for that reason,I refuse to go further. Have a nice one."Aye ahya enawkachuhalen" you are one hell of an observer

[opmerc]

opmerc , Your stance in support of China and now in support of Dr. Twedors is so entrenched, you wouldn’t be able to see facts had they made a grand parade in front of you. You exonerated both while blaming all others for this pandemic. Without exhausting you any further, let us agree to disagree and drop it. Thanks

There is no need for a parade. All you had to do is provide evidence that support any of your statements and I would do you one better than agree to disagree, I would concede to your points.

But it appears you are not here for that. You are here for emotional statements and to label people as anti this or pro that. And that's fine.. you are not alone in that.

If you can at least admit that much, I won't bother you with further corrections.

[TGAA]

Your corrections are always welcomed, regardless.

[Naga Tuma]

TGAA,

While watching TV yesterday, in reaction to what I was hearing, I instinctively uttered "have an Iran moment, not a meltdown" to one who was having it. Then I remembered this thread. When I came back to it, I saw your reaction after my last post.

The phrase Iran moment came to me after remembering that they mistakenly shot down a civilian airliner recently. After the government of Iran realized that it was a catastrophic mistake done by its delegated official, they came out and apologized sincerely. I also remember somebody describing the Iranians as legendary negotiators.

I am having a hard time here trying to understand what point you are making in your reaction. I don't know Dr. Tedros or much about him. However, I remember reading somewhere a while back that his leadership of Ethiopia's health coverage stood out as did Dr. Arkebe's leadership of Addis Ababa as its mayor. To that extent, I have a positive view of these two individuals. If I am not mistaken, the latter was once talked about in the media that he was going to compete against and take the leadership from the late Meles Zenawi. I remember that he was respected by people outside the TPLF.

In this case, my reaction is not clouded by those previous views. I only wanted to understand what the protocol of the WHO is as it exists today and what particular protocol its current Director-General failed to exercise during this pandemic? Mind you, this is not to minimize the catastrophic nature of this pandemic by any stretch of the imagination.

You assert the failures of three parties: The Chinese government, the WHO, and the Trump administration. So, it goes without saying that they can be analyzed separately. It also goes without saying that the WHO needs to be independent of both and all of its member States individually. In my view, it must be accountable only to its independent protocol or guideline that is agreed to by all member States.

The other day, I heard reports that one member State could threaten to withhold its funding for the global institution. If it is to be controlled by the funding of one member State, whether that is the U.S. or China, instead of the contributions of its member States, I don't think that it deserves to exist.

Any member State, including China, is entitled to its political views. It is not excluded from the global institution because it is a Communist State. If I am not mistaken, in the U.S., a political view is a protected class. How much the political view is respected is the party's to earn. So, I think that it must be with the understanding that every member State is entitled to its political views that they can collectively establish an independent institution that can serve them all fairly based on mutually agreed upon protocol. I really wish that you enlighten me if this view is fallacious. If it is arguably right, I wish to be informed which particulars of its protocol as it exists today that the WHO failed to exercise during this pandemic.