Mereja.Forum

[Abe Abraham]

Abe, are you ethiopian (tigrayan? amara? oromo??} or eritrean?


Is fano a government recognized army or a government of its own, that it is able to be present anywhere in the first place? or are there two different armies in Ethiopia?

Secondly, if endf takes control of it, that is one thing-and not illegal or immoral, but if it were to give it to tigray (and UNTIL that occurs), that's an entirely different thing.

Mere speculation and rumors spread by potential cadres on tplf's payroll- a payroll that includes some opportunists from among Amara's, Oromo's, Somali's, etc, isn't sufficient as proof.

I am an observer. I believe in ONE country ONE army. The presence of the Ethiopian army in each and every soil of the country is legitimate. That is not my problem.

What I consider, as an observer and citizen of the Horn of Africa , problematic is the army entering in the Amhara lands , once annexed by the Woyanes, using the constitution to disarmed the self-defence local groups and sit there until the government together with Getchu and Tsadqan with the help of the Meles Zenawi constitution decides over the fate of the ancestral lands of the Amhara people.

In my humble opinion that is extremely dangerous for Ethiopia and our region. Try to imagine what could happen in our region if the Amharas with the size of their population were to react violently against what they consider as injustice.

I hope I am wrong in what I see is going to happen.

[Union]

Anbeta DDT

Did you say "many people"? 60 million Amara does not belong in that "many people" you claimed! No matter how much you hate that fact. And no matter how much you hate the fact that Amara is just building up momentum, not yet fully mobilized at all! Wait and see when that happned!

[Sadacha Macca]

Abe, are you ethiopian (tigrayan? amara? oromo??} or eritrean?


Is fano a government recognized army or a government of its own, that it is able to be present anywhere in the first place? or are there two different armies in Ethiopia?

Secondly, if endf takes control of it, that is one thing-and not illegal or immoral, but if it were to give it to tigray (and UNTIL that occurs), that's an entirely different thing.

Mere speculation and rumors spread by potential cadres on tplf's payroll- a payroll that includes some opportunists from among Amara's, Oromo's, Somali's, etc, isn't sufficient as proof.

I am an observer. I believe in ONE country ONE army. The presence of the Ethiopian army in each and every soil of the country is legitimate. That is not my problem.

What I consider, as an observer and citizen of the Horn of Africa , problematic is the army entering in the Amhara lands , once annexed by the Woyanes, using the constitution to disarmed the self-defence local groups and sit there until the government together with Getchu and Tsadqan with the help of the Meles Zenawi constitution decides over the fate of the ancestral lands of the Amhara people.

In my humble opinion that is extremely dangerous for Ethiopia and our region. Try to imagine what could happen in our region if the Amharas with the size of their population were to react violently against what they consider as injustice.

I hope I am wrong in what I see is going to happen.

Did they allow anyone else to be armed in the country, legally?
If so, where, and when?
If the ENDF is present in those areas, is it not their job to defend the locals there?

Did the TPLF move into/towards those lands then? If so, then you are right, if not, then you are merely speculation based on conjecture and wishful thinking.
As far as the constitution goes, that is not just a tplf constitution, we Oromo's believe in too, but as far as the land disputes go, we take sides with whomever is being wronged, regardless of who it is. if amara have legitimate proof that it's their lands, we're with them-speaking for justice loving oromo's here, not the pp regime.
if it's not, then we do not stand with them.

if abiy/pp were to actually do that, and the amara rise in unison against him, then we can blame him and those who perhaps forced that decision upon him (i.e. the western aid/donors). as for us oromo's, to be honest, we do not fear it because it's not our decision to make, what the elites and governments do, is what they do and they do it for their best interests, not for the interests of us oromo's, or others.

[Abe Abraham]

Abe, are you ethiopian (tigrayan? amara? oromo??} or eritrean?


Is fano a government recognized army or a government of its own, that it is able to be present anywhere in the first place? or are there two different armies in Ethiopia?

Secondly, if endf takes control of it, that is one thing-and not illegal or immoral, but if it were to give it to tigray (and UNTIL that occurs), that's an entirely different thing.

Mere speculation and rumors spread by potential cadres on tplf's payroll- a payroll that includes some opportunists from among Amara's, Oromo's, Somali's, etc, isn't sufficient as proof.

I am an observer. I believe in ONE country ONE army. The presence of the Ethiopian army in each and every soil of the country is legitimate. That is not my problem.

What I consider, as an observer and citizen of the Horn of Africa , problematic is the army entering in the Amhara lands , once annexed by the Woyanes, using the constitution to disarmed the self-defence local groups and sit there until the government together with Getchu and Tsadqan with the help of the Meles Zenawi constitution decides over the fate of the ancestral lands of the Amhara people.

In my humble opinion that is extremely dangerous for Ethiopia and our region. Try to imagine what could happen in our region if the Amharas with the size of their population were to react violently against what they consider as injustice.

I hope I am wrong in what I see is going to happen.

Did they allow anyone else to be armed in the country, legally?
If so, where, and when?

If the ENDF is present in those areas, is it not their job to defend the locals there?

Did the TPLF move into/towards those lands then? If so, then you are right, if not, then you are merely speculation based on conjecture and wishful thinking.

As far as the constitution goes, that is not just a tplf constitution, we Oromo's believe in too, but as far as the land disputes go, we take sides with whomever is being wronged, regardless of who it is. If amara have legitimate proof that it's their lands, we're with them-speaking for justice loving oromo's here, not the pp regime.
if it's not, then we do not stand with them.

if abiy/pp were to actually do that, and the amara rise in unison against him, then we can blame him and those who perhaps forced that decision upon him (i.e. the western aid/donors). as for us oromo's, to be honest, we do not fear it because it's not our decision to make, what the elites and governments do, is what they do and they do it for their best interests, not for the interests of us oromo's, or others.

The army can seek help from the people in case of shortage of manpower and when a certain task is finished the same army can ask the citizens who came to assit it to go back to their daily activities. You are right the defence of the country and its people is the job of the armed forces.

In the case of the Amhara lands the Ethiopian army is coming not only to defend but also to sit in the Amhara Liberated Zones as a neutral force between the thief who claims the lands that do not belong to him and the rightful Amhara owner. The army should stand with the rightful owner by recognizing the liberation of his lands. Case closed.

If you feel that the Meles Zenawi constitution is good for you the sensible thing to do is not to force it upon the Amharas. What is good for you doesn't necessarily have to be good for others. There should be mutual respect between you and the Amharas. What do you gain by insisting that the Meles Zenawi constitution be respected in order to serve the interest of the thief ? No one is bothering you and your lands. Locally speaking we are not talking about Oromia

[Sadacha Macca]

Thank you sir, the defense is indeed for the defense forces and the legally sanctioned police forces.

Is that so? How so? Are they saying ''this land is going to be administered by Tigray now''?
If so, prove it? If not, then how are they doing what you say? If there is war in those areas and the people are unable to reconcile; then what?
Even if it belongs to Amara's, should the army not come in between two warring parties, until an amicable agreement is reached?
If not, this sets a dangerous precedent, for militias from all over the country, to travel to disputed areas, squat on that land, and say ''hey it's mine, go away.''

Meles Zenawi isn't the only one who drafted the constitution though, to imply that, is simple disingenuous and a deliberate distortion of the facts.
OLF officials played a big role in drafting it, the Oromo's in general support it, it's as simple as that, TPLF and/or Tigrayan's are just one of the many parties supporting--- hence the reason why you don't see Somali's arguing against it, Afar's, the Sidama demanded and got their state, the Adere/Harari as well, and so on and so forth.
If Amara do not want to abide by it, then what are you proposing exactly, that they do? You are being vague here, whether it be on purpose or not, and whether you have nefarious and ulterior agendas and motives; or not. That remains to be seen sir!
First of all, Amara's wouldn't be claiming those lands disputed between them and Tigray, if they didn't at the very least, even hesitantly, accept that the constitution is here to stay for the foreseeable future.
Secondly, if they don't want it, then once again, what do you want from them/for them to do? What do you propose for them then?
Abolish it in their lands and have a monarchy? Then what? Go after lands they feel us Oromo's took from them? Perpetual war between us, them, Tigray, and the whole country due to overlapping territory claims?

[DefendTheTruth]

wendem Abe Abraham,

I think you are stuck in some sort of, perhaps also weird, logic.

Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray is going to be in Ethiopia (this is the central point of yesterdays deal in Pretoria), and don't try to draw on the logic of Badme here.

You are going to end up in a confusion, if you take that route.

I thought that you are someone who can come up with a better logic.

If you divide the country into kilils with kilils having their well-defined borders then you can not simply dismiss our discussion by saying " Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray as well ". For the Amharas it matters a lot that they get their historical and ancestral lands back. You seem to see things disinterested and from afar.

The issue is not about living together ( abro menor ).

Wendim Abe Abraham,

I think you know by now that I am adviser to the PM of the country: he just repeated what I said under this thread.

[Tiago]

why is this PM not calling a spade a spade?? nobody asked the case of Wolkyte to be referred to or settled by AU committee in SA.

This man is something else.

Why is he pandering to TPLF false claims? If he truely want lasting peace ,he must stop appeasing TPLF criminals.
Amharas have had enough of this man’s lectures about peace and paying in their lives.

He must deal with the case honestly or step aside so other genuine Ethiopians take firm actions against the criminal TPLF.
He should be reminded the same TPLF that massacred unsuspecting Ethiopian soldiers (north command) also have displaced and massacred hundreds of thousands Amharas in order to settle tigrayes in Amhara lands and illegally annexed it under their own constitution,which Amharas were never part of.
Why would this fake Dr want the Amharas to enter negotiation with daylight robbers/TPLF?

This is nothing short of an insult and contempt of Amharas in general.

[Abe Abraham]

wendem Abe Abraham,

I think you are stuck in some sort of, perhaps also weird, logic.

Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray is going to be in Ethiopia (this is the central point of yesterdays deal in Pretoria), and don't try to draw on the logic of Badme here.

You are going to end up in a confusion, if you take that route.

I thought that you are someone who can come up with a better logic.

If you divide the country into kilils with kilils having their well-defined borders then you can not simply dismiss our discussion by saying " Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray as well ". For the Amharas it matters a lot that they get their historical and ancestral lands back. You seem to see things disinterested and from afar.

The issue is not about living together ( abro menor ).

Wendim Abe Abraham,

I think you know by now that I am adviser to the PM of the country: he just repeated what I said under this thread.

I am related to Meles Zenawi through his mother!! We are not going to get anywhere by boasting about our position and family relations. It is known that every and each piece of land in Oromia,Afar,Amhara ....is in Ethiopia. That is self-evident. Our point of discussion is the Meles Zenawi Constitution and the Kilil structure that he left behind. The Amharas do not like it because it is unjust and criminal. If I were you I would take the Two Giants of Ethiopia seriously.

I know that you are meticulously trying to appear with a sense of balance but justice is not about keeping balance specially when the crime of the Woyanes is more than clear for anyone with common sense to see. There is no room for equivocation.

[DefendTheTruth]

There is no room for equivocation.

I hope that the constitution of the country is free of any sort of "equivocation", if that is the case, then there is no room for any such a thing in the first place in this case too.

[Za-Ilmaknun]

WelQayit is what has become the core cause to undo TPLF fascism and, it shall be the core to make the current regime a has been once things are said and done. We will come back to this in a few months.

[Abe Abraham]

WelQayit is what has become the core cause to undo TPLF fascism and, it shall be the core to make the current regime a has been once things are said and done. We will come back to this in a few months.

As I see it your conclusion is : playing with fire within an explosive situation is extremely dangerous. It is stupid to create a civil war in Ethiopia for the sake of pleasing the Americans and the very few Tigrayan barbarians.


-

[Sadacha Macca]

I do not think Welkait is going to be the reason PM Abiy is overthrown nor is it the reason tplf lost power, per se, nor do I think he is foolish enough to try and hand welkait back to tigray, unless something is up, i.e. western pressure and other things that one could speculate.
If Ethiopia is truly broke, with no money, while the west comes in with billions of aid, with conditions including welkait going to tigray (which I am not saying I condone), then what can he do or what should he do? Tough decisions will have to be made, because Ethiopia is dependent on them for money and aid, since its inception under menelik. Facts.
TPLF losing power was a culmination of things, which ended with their plan to displace oromo farmers of their lands around finfinne/addis ababa.
Welkait wasn't an issue that led to Amara's being mobilized across their state, for war or for a common movement, if it did lead to that, then no doubt, it could've taken care of the tplf, for sure. At least in their lands.


Honestly, there are two ways to handle it, for the most part:
In a court of law, in which both sides bring forth their evidences, proof, maps, etc, the same Eritrea did against TPLF led Ethiopia in the aftermath of the Badme war, or 2: the violent way, which Tigray cannot afford, because it has no allies, no supplies/armaments, while Amara's have the advantage in manpower, resources, funds, allies (Eritrea won't sit back idly), etc.

[TGAA]

wendem Abe Abraham,

I think you are stuck in some sort of, perhaps also weird, logic.

Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray is going to be in Ethiopia (this is the central point of yesterdays deal in Pretoria), and don't try to draw on the logic of Badme here.

You are going to end up in a confusion, if you take that route.

I thought that you are someone who can come up with a better logic.

If you divide the country into kilils with kilils having their well-defined borders then you can not simply dismiss our discussion by saying " Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray as well ". For the Amharas it matters a lot that they get their historical and ancestral lands back. You seem to see things disinterested and from afar.

The issue is not about living together ( abro menor ).

Ethiopia has a constitution!

Which one Weyane's ?

[sun]

Professor DTT,
Many people in Ethiopia agreed upon it and adopted? Really? You are wrong.
It is a Weyannies constitution which is the source of all troubles in Ethiopia today.
Ethiopians want to get rid off it and they will.

Good luck with your new partner. Just remember that it will not be that far the table will turn. The way you guys are handling crisis, my god! 2 years ago, Members of the Northern command have been butchered savagely and now the killers are walking on a red mat with Abiye Ahmed. You guys are the laughing stock of the world.

Why is it that there were wide spread conflicts and violence before the current federal constitution came to exist, say during King Menelik, king Haile Selassie and President Mengistu? Additionally, the current constitution have been drafted, debated and legalized by the full participation of the Amharas with ex-PM Tamirat Laine at the head, an Amhara himself. so, please stop boring us by lying endlessly.

Currently there are lots of conflicts in Africa and elsewhere in the world where there are not even ethnic based constitution. Yes of course the table will turn even in your day dreams and midnight nightmares when you are confused and blaming the wrong tree. If the Ethiopian nations and nationalities so desire and decide to modify the constitution willingly that is also their right.

[sun]

wendem Abe Abraham,

I think you are stuck in some sort of, perhaps also weird, logic.

Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray is going to be in Ethiopia (this is the central point of yesterdays deal in Pretoria), and don't try to draw on the logic of Badme here.

You are going to end up in a confusion, if you take that route.

I thought that you are someone who can come up with a better logic.

If you divide the country into kilils with kilils having their well-defined borders then you can not simply dismiss our discussion by saying " Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray as well ". For the Amharas it matters a lot that they get their historical and ancestral lands back. You seem to see things disinterested and from afar.

The issue is not about living together ( abro menor ).

Ethiopia has a constitution!

Which one Weyane's ?

An Amhara ex-PM Tamirat Laine and his Amhara colleagues constitution!

[TGAA]

wendem Abe Abraham,

I think you are stuck in some sort of, perhaps also weird, logic.

Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray is going to be in Ethiopia (this is the central point of yesterdays deal in Pretoria), and don't try to draw on the logic of Badme here.

You are going to end up in a confusion, if you take that route.

I thought that you are someone who can come up with a better logic.

If you divide the country into kilils with kilils having their well-defined borders then you can not simply dismiss our discussion by saying " Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray as well ". For the Amharas it matters a lot that they get their historical and ancestral lands back. You seem to see things disinterested and from afar.

The issue is not about living together ( abro menor ).

Ethiopia has a constitution!

Which one Weyane's ?

An Amhara ex-PM Tamirat Laine and his Amhara colleagues constitution!

You can call all the puppetry of weyane as representative of Amhara because you want to slide your feet into the identical shoe in the name of "constitution ". As obo Merara Gudina used to say once you have the bank and the tank there is no crime you can not commit, you can give out an apartment as a piece of cake to your tribal friends with impunity, and your tribal bodies take the federal position that counts to themselves. you loot in the daylight at will the Ethiopian people treasure, but to do your scheme, you need the weyane constitution, that is why you are in love with it. So you can entertain yourself by posting the faring donkeys, and dancing monkies ad nauseam, but the Ethiopian people can see through your shenanigans, you can not keep reinventing the wyeane wheel and impress anyone. Even the weyanes are at the receiving end of the treatment they were dolling out to Ethiopian people, so the new Mogassas going to be challenged the same way as weyanes were, and don't be surprised if the mogassasist end up in the same situation weyanes find themselves in. You can't do the same thing and expect a different result.

[DefendTheTruth]

wendem Abe Abraham,

I think you are stuck in some sort of, perhaps also weird, logic.

Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray is going to be in Ethiopia (this is the central point of yesterdays deal in Pretoria), and don't try to draw on the logic of Badme here.

You are going to end up in a confusion, if you take that route.

I thought that you are someone who can come up with a better logic.

If you divide the country into kilils with kilils having their well-defined borders then you can not simply dismiss our discussion by saying " Amhara is in Ethiopia, Tigray as well ". For the Amharas it matters a lot that they get their historical and ancestral lands back. You seem to see things disinterested and from afar.

The issue is not about living together ( abro menor ).

Ethiopia has a constitution!

Which one Weyane's ?

No, the one which is authored by those who keep claiming "Amhara is not represented" in the peace talks in Pretoria, Republic of SA, before a couple of weeks.

Amhara is not represented, in everything. Isn't it?

[TGAA]

You know quite well what it means Oromo's interest represented by Obo Shimales, and know as well when Tigray interest represented by Debretsion...name one Amhara, who has been not sidelined,with the exception of Col. Delete, who stands for Amhara interest like the two, who stand for Amhara interest.None. But you ask this nonsense question as if you don't know what representation means when it comes to your own interest.

[TGAA]

You know quite well what it means Oromo's interest represented by Obo Shimales, and know as well when Tigray interest represented by Debretsion...name one Amhara, who has been not sidelined,with the exception of Col. Delete, who stands for Amhara interest like the two, who stand for Amhara interest.None. But you ask this nonsense question as if you don't know what representation means when it comes to your own interest.

[Sadacha Macca]

TGAA,

If, it is as you say, then whose fault is it, if the 2nd biggest nation, a very influential one at that, lacks ''true representation'' as you say?
Secondly, if you are against the constitution, or if the Amara's are, then go back home, galvanize them and mobilize them for an independent state, and if they agree to it (if a majority does), then you guys can make your own state with a monarchy similar to haile selassie, and you guys can have an emperor while the vast majority remained poor as it was back then? Then you can say the monarchy is wrong and that you guys need another new form of governance?