Mereja.Forum

[Horus]

ናጋ ቱማ፣
ሁል ጊዜ የሃሳብህ ጭምትነትና ጥልቀት ይመቸኛል። የኛ ሕዝብ መኪና፣ ፎቅና አስፋልት አልሰራም እንጂ እጅግ የበለጸገ ባህል ያለው ፣ ከተፈጥሮ ጋር ተከባብሮ ለእልፍ ዘመናት የኖረ ፣ ጤነኛ ካልቸርና መንፈሳዊነት ያለው ማህበረሰብ ነው ። ያየውን ሁሉ ልብላ አይልም። ነፍስ ያላቸው ፍጡራን ሁሉ ለሰው ምግብነት ተፈጠሩ አይልም። ኢትዮጵያ ብዙ ረሃብ አይታለች ። ግን ዉሻና አህያ አልተበላም ። ዝም ያለ አፍ ዝምብ አይገባበትም እንደ ሚባለው ልጓም ያለው ካልቸር እንዲህ ካለ ግዙፍ ጥፋት ይጠብቃል።

ኬር

[DefendTheTruth]

How and why we started the journey of downward spiraling trajectory from top to bottom while those who were at the bottom took the other direction and landed at the top, leaving us at the bottom?

DefendTheTruth,

Has Ethiopia lost the moral ground at any point in its long history? Even when he was in exile, Aste Haile Sellassie was making prophetic warnings on moral grounds, which time proved to be right. It is important to make a distinction between moral and material grounds.

Naga Tuma,

I think to have said before that I am a materialist, at least in some sense of the word.

After reading your short reply here I had to ask myself about what is the base (the foundation) on which the other may stand?

Is it the material foundation that stands on the moral foundation or the moral foundation that stands on the material one?

In this case we can think about an infra-structure on which the others are running or standing.

In economics, for example, if you have got a well-gaurded and equipped infra-structure then you can also attract a high profile investment on the bases of the good kept infra-structure.


Another example, which I also think to have raised here before: I go to a grocery and see people first and formost trying to fill-in their shopping carts with their groceries needs (bodily needs) and then at the end of their way back to the cashier turn to the corner of the shelfs where some resources of media (mind needs) are available.

It could be different somewhere else, this is just my observation.

[Naga Tuma]

ሆረስ፣

ኣመሰግናለሁ። ለእኔ ከሁሉ የላቀ ብልጽግና የኣእምሮ፣ የእዉቀት ብልጽግና ነዉ። በሃገራችን ኖዉሌጅ የሚባል ቃል ሳይሰማ በፊት ልህቅ፣ ክህነሊህቅ የሚባሉ ቃላት ተጽፈዉ ነበር።

[opmerc]

ያየውን ሁሉ ልብላ አይልም። ነፍስ ያላቸው ፍጡራን ሁሉ ለሰው ምግብነት ተፈጠሩ አይልም። ኢትዮጵያ ብዙ ረሃብ አይታለች ። ግን ዉሻና አህያ አልተበላም ።

It's really easy to be so virtuous now when you think no one can blame you for the advent of this particular virus. I wouldn't even care so much about such thoughts if it was well past the pandemic itself. But right now when we are in the thick of it and people are resorting to rash actions including violence on innocent foreigners, such ruminations are the height of irresponsibility.

And don't be so sure Ethiopians don't eat non domesticated animals. There are many examples in which people have been known to hunt and eat wild deer (some on the endangered list) among other species. It's only the luck of the draw that those instances didn't result in transference of some deadly virus over to humans.

[Naga Tuma]

After reading your short reply here I had to ask myself about what is the base (the foundation) on which the other may stand?

Is it the material foundation that stands on the moral foundation or the moral foundation that stands on the material one?

DefendTheTruth,

I wish to ask you back if you have a clarity of value system of your own that points to an answer for your question. I wish to also add if there is any lack of clarity in the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s often quoted expression that "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." When your value system is that clear, a clear answer wouldn't be lacking.

[DefendTheTruth]

After reading your short reply here I had to ask myself about what is the base (the foundation) on which the other may stand?

Is it the material foundation that stands on the moral foundation or the moral foundation that stands on the material one?

DefendTheTruth,

I wish to ask you back if you have a clarity of value system of your own that points to an answer for your question. I wish to also add if there is any lack of clarity in the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s often quoted expression that "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." When your value system is that clear, a clear answer wouldn't be lacking.

Naga Tuma,

let me put it this way: I think there was ( and most probably there is still) a demand that was/being raised by the late Dr. Martin Luther King and other people who see him as their role model and there is also a demand that a young Ethiopian man is raising today (or has been raising for a while), as another example.

Do you think the two are the same, if not, then why do these demands differ, seen qualitatively, in their essence?

I think that it is not about disowning this or that value system, perhaps about setting a priority of the different value systems.

[Selam/]

Good that you dropped your baseless bioengineering conspiracy.

I am sure only a very few people will take essential lessons from the calamity that is taking over the world.

1. Humans shall not be so greedy like the Chinese.

2. Humans shall not eat everything and anything that exist between heaven and earth.

3. Humans shall practice religion, spirituality, moral constraints and civilized code of conduct.

4. Humans shall not worship blind connectivity and crass globalism.

5. Humans shall practice certain degree of ethics, esthetics, wisdom and sense of humility.

6. Humans must recognize and accept the power of one tiny germ over the fallacy of man's limitless greed and stupidity.

7. Humans shall celebrate the supreme Ethiopian wisdom of clean food, fasting, praying, fear of God and the sinfulness of greed.

8 Humans must recognize that a seemingly omnipotent material culture can be dismantled into nothingness by a single microscopic virus.

The fool can labor all his life gathering stuff only to lose it in a moment of folly !

አልጠግብ ያለ ሲተፋ ያድራል !!

Stay safe & Ker !!!

[Horus]

Defend the Truth,
I think you are using materialist philosophy a bit wrongly. Let us say you are a full blown materialist, objectivist or positivist. Here is how you would narrate the case in hand. In the beginning there was nothing. Then the big bang happened and physics was born. Physics gave rise to chemistry. Then, chemistry gave rise to biology. Then, biology gave rise to neurology (the brain), then neurology gave rise to mind (consciousness). Today you can be a positivist (materialist), a constructivist (idealist) or in between (a pragmatist) - in all cases, you are dealing with mind and consciousness. Our values, culture, ideas, knowledge and more are functions of the mind and our consciousness. This is in fact one area that science and religion are coming to a common point. Whether mind is a product of matter or a creation of God, its job is to guide the material body, the mass, the matter. You may be a rational animal and expert economist,
but please don't leave home without it (mind). In fact, it is precisely when you are a physics driven materialist that you most need the service of consciousness. If not, how on earth could we be distinct from material object, plants and nonhuman animals none of which have any known culture.

[sun]

This is Horus. I hate to mince words. In this age of twits, I say my point in less than one paragraph. As the poet said,
Tell me quick,
And, tell me true;
Otherwise sir,
To hell with you.

You can go ahead and discuss the etiology of Corv19. One can trace the cause of every event to the big bang. This particular virus travelled from the sea to human in Wuhan China. But, the point of my post is that all of this drama happens as a consequence of a particular human behavior - human culture. There is a reason why we don't eat donkeys and other strange sea and land creatures. There is a reason why we have values, moralities, code of conducts and sense of boundaries. ስድ ካልቸር አሁን ያለውን ኩሉ አለም ጥፋት ያስከትላል !

Hmm...

Obbo Horus,

Please note that I am not writing for you but for the benefit of the general public on the public forum.

Sorry but the whole talk sounds to me as red neck's self centered bragging and empty talks. For your information cultures, moralities, social codes and values are dynamic and relative but not static and deterministic. All ethnocentric rednecks think that their cultures, values, moralities, and social codes are the only single best in the world while others' cultures, values, moralities and social codes are of the lowest rate.

On the other hand cultural relativists think that they do have good cultures, values, moralities, social codes etc., some of which are good values as well as some of which that are bad practices and value orientations. As far as cultural relativists are concerned other societies just like their own societies also possess some good cultural patterns, values, moralities, social codes, etc., as well as also some bad cultural patterns, values, moralities and social codes. In this sense all societies and cultures are similar in some ways, different in some ways but equal in all the ways.

Last but not least every society likes its culture and its values just like you love your culture and your values. Loving and respecting own culture is ok. But hating and condemning the cultures and values of others is nothing more than lunatic fascism as has already been clearly testified by the dwarf mad dictator, Adolf Hitler. Live and let live is the best approach in a world where he own the same ball jointly. For that even the Chines are good examples because just yesterday the Chinese government sent full plain load of experienced medical doctors, medicines, nurses, medical equipment, etc.,supplies to the devastated and overwhelmed Italy. If it were some you red neck guys you have only sat flat on your asses blaming cats, rats, dogs and other humans instead of taking your redneck bickering baboons and helping others during such catastrophic historical situations.

Thank you China and God bless you for your wisdom and kindness in coming out and helping Italy far away from your country.

"The first step in the evolution of ethics is a sense of solidarity with other human beings." ~A. Schweitzer

[Horus]

ሆረስ፣

ኣመሰግናለሁ። ለእኔ ከሁሉ የላቀ ብልጽግና የኣእምሮ፣ የእዉቀት ብልጽግና ነዉ። በሃገራችን ኖዉሌጅ የሚባል ቃል ሳይሰማ በፊት ልህቅ፣ ክህነሊህቅ የሚባሉ ቃላት ተጽፈዉ ነበር።

በትክክል

[sun]

This is Horus. I hate to mince words. In this age of twits, I say my point in less than one paragraph. As the poet said,
Tell me quick,
And, tell me true;
Otherwise sir,
To hell with you.

You can go ahead and discuss the etiology of Corv19. One can trace the cause of every event to the big bang. This particular virus travelled from the sea to human in Wuhan China. But, the point of my post is that all of this drama happens as a consequence of a particular human behavior - human culture. There is a reason why we don't eat donkeys and other strange sea and land creatures. There is a reason why we have values, moralities, code of conducts and sense of boundaries. ስድ ካልቸር አሁን ያለውን ኩሉ አለም ጥፋት ያስከትላል !

Sure, the reason things are in the state they are is due to human behavior. Only, the origins of any virus is not relevant to the chaos it creates. An asteroid could crash on earth tomorrow and deliver such pestilence and we will find ourselves in the exact same mess. Tomorrow Ethiopia could dig something out of the ground that is capable of killing every living thing on earth and it still wouldn't be our fault or a mark on our culture.

There is no cause for you to feel better about not being the origin of this virus if there are million other ways a similar deadly virus could develop.

A sign of true morality, culture and code of conduct is one that recognizes this simple fact and puts that energy towards where it matters most, solving the crisis before it claims us all.

Well said!

[Horus]

Selam/
Bioengineering conspiracy is your term, not mine. First, recognize that a single reality can have multiple explanations. In fact any given event, most of the time has more than one explanation. The reason being that any complex phenomenon, cov19 is one of them, can't be explained by a single cause.

Whether cov19 is a naturally evolved or a lab produced entity does not make a difference regarding its world shaking destruction. The manner of its transmission is the same. If it is created intentionally by some interested power, then my previous observation holds. Massive destruction like world wars are prerequisites for economic vitalization and transfer of wealth from one nation to another.

If the virus travelled from certain animal to human, its manner of replication is the same as well as its global destruction. As we speak powerful economic forces are positioning themselves to take advantage of the crisis and ensuing destruction. So, you need to think deep and wait for the truth.

The point of the discussion here is not on the etiology of the virus. It is about our own culture of relating to nature and the consequences of those cultural practices.

[sun]

Defend the Truth,
I think you are using materialist philosophy a bit wrongly. Let us say you are a full blown materialist, objectivist or positivist. Here is how you would narrate the case in hand. In the beginning there was nothing. Then the big bang happened and physics was born. Physics gave rise to chemistry. Then, chemistry gave rise to biology. Then, biology gave rise to neurology (the brain), then neurology gave rise to mind (consciousness). Today you can be a positivist (materialist), a constructivist (idealist) or in between (a pragmatist) - in all cases, you are dealing with mind and consciousness. Our values, culture, ideas, knowledge and more are functions of the mind and our consciousness. This is in fact one area that science and religion are coming to a common point. Whether mind is a product of matter or a creation of God, its job is to guide the material body, the mass, the matter. You may be a rational animal and expert economist,
but please don't leave home without it (mind). In fact, it is precisely when you are a physics driven materialist that you most need the service of consciousness. If not, how on earth could we be distinct from material object, plants and nonhuman animals none of which have any known culture.

Hmm...

Monkeys and Apes may not go to the opera or sip fine wines, but the verdict is that Monkeys and apes are cultured.
Fifty years of research on gorillas, chimps and orangutans has shown that these animals use tools, communicate, and sometimes shake their hands just because it’s cool.

Since then, scientists have claimed that a wide range of species exhibit signs of culture, including rodents, birds, fish, marine mammals, and non-human primates. Of all the species studied to date, only humans exceed the level of cultural variation shown by chimps.

Prominent researchers like Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey spent much of their time quietly observing animal behaviors. Yet studies accumulated from the 1980s and ’90s are patchy because many observations went unpublished.
But solid evidence has accumulated recently. Scientists have confirmed culture in chimps in a study published in the journal Nature. They found chimps naturally copy their peers well into adulthood, suggesting they develop cultural behaviors by imitating each other.
“Ape cultures are real. It’s time to stop doubting that they exist,” said primatologist Carel van Schaik from the University of Zurich.

Van Schaik presented his findings on orangutan culture with Zoo Atlanta primatologist Tara Stoinski at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in St. Louis. Armed with previous field research, as well as new studies from wild orangutans and captive gorillas, researchers have more evidence to explain the variation and transmission of cultural behaviors in apes. Scientists are now focusing on the details of cultural behaviors and how apes adopt them as tradition.

Trends and tradition
Like us, apes are influenced by popular opinion. Scientists have observed cultural traditions that last for generations, and some that look more like short-term trends. Traditions between groups vary, similar to human cultural differences. In the wild, one group of orangutans living by a river pounds stones and branches to crack open nuts. Living just across the river are apes that, by chance, haven’t picked up the nut-cracking technique.
Cracking nuts is one of more than 40 behavior patterns scientists have observed that does not appear to have any genetic explanation.
Cultural behaviors stem from popularity, the environment the apes are in, and pure chance. So what makes one group more cultured than the next?
“The answer is very simple,” van Schaik told LiveScience. “How much there is to eat.” Apes like being with other apes; orangutans will actually suppress aggression when in groups. Even bullies will chill out so they don’t mess up with an opportunity to play with others.

Proving apes have culture hasn’t come quickly.
Ecologist Kinji Imanishi first introduced the concept of culture in a non-human species in 1952. He suggested that Japanese macaque populations develop behavioral differences as a result of social, rather than genetic, variation.
Strongest Evidence of Animal Culture Seen in Monkeys and Whales.
Until fairly recently, many scientists thought that only humans had culture, but that idea is now being crushed by an avalanche of recent research with animals.
Two new studies in monkeys and whales take the work further, showing how new cultural traditions can be formed and how conformity might help a species survive and prosper. The findings may also help researchers distinguish the differences between animal and human cultures.

Researchers differ on exactly how to define culture, but most agree that it involves a collective adoption and transmission of one or more behaviors among a group. Humans' ability to create and transmit new cultural trends has helped our species dominate Earth, in large part because each new generation can benefit from the experiences of the previous one.

Researchers have found that similar, albeit much simpler, cultural transmission takes place in animals, including fish, insects, meerkats, birds, monkeys, and apes. Sometimes these cultural traits seem bizarre, such as the recently developed trend among some Capuchin monkeys to poke each other's eyeballs with their long, sharp fingernails—a behavior that originated among a small group of individuals and which has spread over time.

In humans, once a new fad arises, everyone starts doing it, and in tomorrow's issue of Science, two back-to-back papers find this to be true among animals, too. Two international teams led by researchers at the University of St. Andrews in the United Kingdom report new evidence for the strength of cultural conformity in two very different species suspected to exhibit cultural behavior: vervet monkeys and humpback whales.

In the first study, a research group led by psychologist Andrew Whiten of St. Andrews tried to induce conformity in four groups of wild monkeys, 109 animals in total, living in a private game reserve in South Africa's KwaZulu-Natal province. The team gave each group two plastic trays filled with corn; the corn was dyed blue in one tray and pink in the other. (These colors were chosen because they are prominent in the genitals of male vervets and so were likely to draw the monkeys' attention.) One set of corn was soaked in bitter aloe leaves and made distasteful to the monkeys. In two groups, the blue corn was made bitter, while the other two groups got bitter pink corn. Over a period of 3 months, the monkeys easily learned to entirely avoid the bitter-tasting food.

Four months later, after 27 baby monkeys had been born and were old enough to eat solid food, the monkeys were again offered pink and blue corn, although this time neither had the bitter taste. During the next 2 months, both adults and infant monkeys strongly preferred the same color as before—even though both trays were now edible.

Indeed, 26 of the 27 infants ate only the corn preferred by their mothers, ignoring the other tray. Moreover, during the period of the experiments, 10 male monkeys migrated from a group that had preferred one color of corn to a group that preferred the opposite color. Seven of the 10 immediately took up the color choice of their new, adopted group, suggesting that they were influenced by the norms of that cohort.

The study demonstrates that learning from others and cultural conformity play an important role in the behavior of animals as well as humans, Whiten and his colleagues conclude. Deferring to the experiences of others—rather than relying on only personal experience—can help animals adapt.

[Horus]

Sun,
This is what I call human constructed animal "culture". What I don't see is a clearly defined concept of human culture, animal culture, etc. This piece talks about animal behavior and learning ability. Yes, animals learn. Yes animals behave. Yes the higher their brain development, the higher their memory, and hence the greater their ability to store their skill (reproduction, food gathering, self-defense) and show them to their off springs.

So, in terms of evolutionary development, none of this is new. It is true that human culture contains learning and imitation, hence human culture contains behavior but behavior is not culture. In fact the essence of human culture is not that it contains behavior but that it is about technology and consciousness. If these animals had culture, they would have books, build houses, make bicycles and cook pasta for dinner and fry eggs for breakfast.

More over, they would plan their marriage, organize a music band, display their painting in a gallery. Sure survival needs have played roles in the relative development of brains in animals and hence the growth of certain skills to enhance their ability to feed and reproduce such as using a stick to drop fruit etc. Yes, the young one observe what parents do and imitate that behavior. For a human being who is not even a member that animals language group calling this culture is what we call projection of the human on the animal. This scientist can see what monkey does, but he has no way of knowing what the monkey means. That is essence of culture. Human culture is about meaning.

[opmerc]

Go sit on Isaias's lap and have a big cry about it. Maybe he'll care about your thoughts.

[tlel]

Think about it, god will test you in every way, like he did on Adam and Eve, either you fail or you win in god's eyes. I do believe the greediness, god was saying, can you chew the Menna I am giving you more than you can swallow? I also believe the makers of creating greediness, you can call them god-like or not, who are able to have self control and control their greediness, in otherwords, you can be a bad person but you also have the wisdom to realize that what you are doing is bad and can turn to wisdom. I do believe there is such thing in the West for wisdom, and with exception of some countries but not in entire world. This does not mean there are not bad people in the West.

[tlel]

Bill Gates -

10 ሚሊዮን አፍሪካዊያን እንደ ሚሞቱ ተናገረ ። ከዚህ ቁጥር ስንቱ ኢትዮጵያዊያን ይሆኑ ይሆን?

ወያኔ ስልጣን ሲወስድ፣ የኢትዮዺያ ህዝብ ካፍሪካ ሁለተኛ ሆነች፣ እንዴት ሊሆን ቻለ፧ ካፍሪካ ኣንደኛዋ ናይጄርያ ተባለ። ይሄ ሃሰት ነው። ኣላማው ለምን እንደሆነ ታውቃለህ፧ የኢትዮዺያን ህዝብ ለመቀነስ ነው። ህዝብ መቀነስ ማለት ደካማ ኣገር፤ በውጭ ሃይሎች በቀላሉ መያዝ የሚችል ማለት ነው።

[tlel]

ናቱማ፣
ሁል ጊዜ የሃሳብህ ጭምትነትና ጥልቀት ይመቸኛል። የኛ ሕዝብ መኪና፣ ፎቅና አስፋልት አልሰራም እንጂ እጅግ የበለጸገ ባህል ያለው ፣ ከተፈጥሮ ጋር ተከባብሮ ለእልፍ ዘመናት የኖረ ፣ ጤነኛ ካልቸርና መንፈሳዊነት ያለው ማህበረሰብ ነው ። ያየውን ሁሉ ልብላ አይልም። ነፍስ ያላቸው ፍጡራን ሁሉ ለሰው ምግብነት ተፈጠሩ አይልም። ኢትዮጵያ ብዙ ረሃብ አይታለች ። ግን ዉሻና አህያ አልተበላም ። ዝም ያለ አፍ ዝምብ አይገባበትም እንደ ሚባለው ልጓም ያለው ካልቸር እንዲህ ካለ ግዙፍ ጥፋት ይጠብቃል።

ኬር

Horus,

I think you know Ethiopians have been suffering with man-made famine for a long time. It is also smart by now, how to implement survival mechanism (be it food, faith or other means) as wisdom even though you don't eat certain food. Yes, Ethiopians survived till today, what if just now, being attacked from every corner, its population won't survive? Have you thought about that? So many evidence is there now to affect Ethiopia in every corners there is ample evidence. I do believe people lie Opmerc just a year ago was anti Ethiopian and Oneg. It is good that he turned around.

[Selam/]

Whether pathogenic Cov19 evolved naturally or made contagious intentionally is yet to be seen although the former appears very plausible to me. But I wouldn’t relay rumors and point fingers on social media before researchers pin down the origin of the disease.

I am a firm believer though that eating “unclean” meat has a grave health consequence even though the effect isn’t oftentimes noticeable. But it doesn’t mean lamb-eater Ethiopians are healthier and holier than everything-eater Chinese. Because eating high-fat beef could be equally deadly and sinful unless you strike through Leviticus 7:23. Those poor kids that are now scavenging rotting meat in the street of Addis face more health risk than the chinese that have been eating “unclean” crustaceans shellfish for centuries. The reason why the Lord commands “don’t judge” is to preclude all negative assessments and stereotyping.

Selam/
Bioengineering conspiracy is your term, not mine. First, recognize that a single reality can have multiple explanations. In fact any given event, most of the time has more than one explanation. The reason being that any complex phenomenon, cov19 is one of them, can't be explained by a single cause.

Whether cov19 is a naturally evolved or a lab produced entity does not make a difference regarding its world shaking destruction. The manner of its transmission is the same. If it is created intentionally by some interested power, then my previous observation holds. Massive destruction like world wars are prerequisites for economic vitalization and transfer of wealth from one nation to another.

If the virus travelled from certain animal to human, its manner of replication is the same as well as its global destruction. As we speak powerful economic forces are positioning themselves to take advantage of the crisis and ensuing destruction. So, you need to think deep and wait for the truth.

The point of the discussion here is not on the etiology of the virus. It is about our own culture of relating to nature and the consequences those cultural practices.

[Selam/]

Time & Karma: When a bird is alive, it eats ants. When the bird had died, ants eat it. Your arrogance will hit you back in the head like a boomerang. In case you don’t know, there are Ethiopians that consume all kinds of wild animals. Remember also that Leprosy originated in East Africa. The bubonic plague had its origin in China. But all what it needed was an infectious bacteria and a transmitter called “flea” - both abundant in Ethiopia. Who knows what is going to happen 100 years from now?

Go sit on Isaias's lap and have a big cry about it. Maybe he'll care about your thoughts.

F*ck you bantu kafir, Ebola is from the jungle of Congo from Niger-Congo people and Coronavirus came from Chinese orientals, deal with it, it all has to do with their contact with wild animals with other different wild animals